Giblert Hayhurst died 1826 to 1827, nr Kendal, Westomorland

[Vonny North West]

Hi Sylvia, I thought you might go looking once you had read all the information on the memorial! I have just taken this one line from the website I will post,
"Quaker births and burials will not appear in the (Anglican) Parish Registers or the modern indexes/transcripts produced from them."
This website is worth reading through. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~en...rds.htm#Births
It does explain where the digests/records are.
Vonny

[Vonny North West]

Another website worth looking at. You need to register on this to do a full search: http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/help/aboutRG6.htm
Vonny

[Vonny North West]

Have looked through CASCAT and this is the reference for Burial Certificates which is relevant with the year of death you are looking for.
Archive centre Kendal
Reference WDFCF/1/112
Title Burial certificates.
Date 1824-1852
Catalogue level File
Vonny

[margaretmarch]

"A friend found a reference in the Index to Death Duty Registers Transcription on FMP to him, with death year 1827 ............

Gilbert Hayhurst
Death Year:- 1827
Residence:- Milton Mill
Court:- All Courts excluding FOC
Record Set:- Index to Death Duty Registers 1796-1903
TNA Ref:- IR27/109
Category:- Birth, Marriage, Death and Probate Records
Sub-category:- Wills and Probate

She also found a reference on the National Archives to an Administration Bond being issued on 9 June 1827 ...................

Name: Hayhurst, Gilbert
Address: Milton Mill, Burton In Kendal, Kendal, Westmorland
Reference: R 520/55
Description: Name: Hayhurst, Gilbert
Address: Milton Hill, Burton In Kendal, Kendal, Westmorland
Occupation: Miller
Contents: Administration Bond
Date: 1827 Jun 9
Held by: Lancashire Archives, not available at The national Archives
Language: English
"

You should be able to buy a copy of the will and probate - I paid £3.50 for one from TNA - might be worth asking the Lancaster Archives what the position is.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Another website worth looking at. You need to register on this to do a full search: http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/help/aboutRG6.htm
Vonny

That site does cover non-conformists but I thought they were all Methodists and they do come up on Ancestry now I think.
Margaret

[Vonny North West]

Hi Margaret, from what I have read in the past posts the family were mainly Quakers. Hence the website I listed.
Vonny

[clematised]

I have Quakers in my line and I tried so many times to find baptisms but in the end I was sent a list from someone on another Forum and they do not do baptisms but they have a Quaker or Quaker Doctor or equivalent Witness the Birth which I found all of them listed this way, I was able to find them documented on Familysearch under the Nonconformist listings at the nearest Quaker meeting House at Pardshaw, they all lived in Whitehaven.

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1666142 Non Conformist records


Edna

[Vonny North West]

Hi Edna, that is really interesting and a collection I didn't find. The Hayhurst family were originally from Slaidburn Yorkshire, also from Sedburgh and Kendal. If you read through all the posts Sylvia has written you will get the fuller story.
Vonny.

[clematised]

Yes Vonny I have been following the post.
I have a couple of wills from my Quakers and they don't like family to Marry out of the faith to another non Quaker they get dis associated or whatever the word is as mine married out.

Edna

[Vonny North West]

Hi Edna, I did find the Quaker history and the "do's and don'ts " are quite specific. One of the things I read was that it was up to the "meeting" to approve a marriage out of the faith. I found everything so interesting about the history as it is something I haven't come across before. I was surprised to find the "meeting house" in the country areas were just that - a house or a barn and I didn't know anything about their private burial grounds and they preferred not to be buried in consecrated ground. Just all so interesting.

Vonny

[clematised]

So you know that they were persecuted and jailed for their beliefs too, I have not read up for a long time about it but found googleing has lots of information try the Wikki.
I too have tried looking for the burial but nothing coming up for his name, maybe a visit to the record office may reveal something, I tried googling his name and all the previous searches came up but did not read them.
I am helping a friend research her tree and found Hayhurst as one of the marriages in 1900s so went looking back so that's why this thread took my eye, her people are in Blackburn Lancashire.

[Sylvia C]

I do have some problems reconciling the Quaker story with these Hayhursts.

There seems to be no doubt that Gilbert's father did indeed go to the Brigg Flatts Meeting House ..............

but, in spite of that, every single baptism, marriage and burial that I have found for them, including for Robert, has been in a CofE church .......... the Parish Registers are quite clear.

Robert was baptized at Slaidburn 10 May 1767 in, I believe, St Andrew's Church (I think this was the only church there)

He then married 11 Jun 1791, eng-parish-sedbergh/the-registers-of-the-parish-church-of-sedbergh-co-york-- ..........

England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973
Name: Robert Hayhurst
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 11 Jun 1791
Marriage Place: Sedbergh,York,England
Spouse: Mary Newton

Gilbert was baptised 22 April 1792 St Patrick's Church, Preston Patrick, and married Jane Goose at St Michael the Archangel, Whittington

Their children were all baptised in church ...................

yet they are considered to be strong Quakers



maybe it is the "other family" that are strong Quakers, and are the ones who needed to get away from persecution and their "cousins" were willing to exchange mills and farms???

[Sylvia C]

"A friend found a reference in the Index to Death Duty Registers Transcription on FMP to him, with death year 1827 ............

Gilbert Hayhurst
Death Year:- 1827
Residence:- Milton Mill
Court:- All Courts excluding FOC
Record Set:- Index to Death Duty Registers 1796-1903
TNA Ref:- IR27/109
Category:- Birth, Marriage, Death and Probate Records
Sub-category:- Wills and Probate

She also found a reference on the National Archives to an Administration Bond being issued on 9 June 1827 ...................

Name: Hayhurst, Gilbert
Address: Milton Mill, Burton In Kendal, Kendal, Westmorland
Reference: R 520/55
Description: Name: Hayhurst, Gilbert
Address: Milton Hill, Burton In Kendal, Kendal, Westmorland
Occupation: Miller
Contents: Administration Bond
Date: 1827 Jun 9
Held by: Lancashire Archives, not available at The national Archives
Language: English
"

You should be able to buy a copy of the will and probate - I paid £3.50 for one from TNA - might be worth asking the Lancaster Archives what the position is.

Margaret

Margaret ............ thank you for that. I had wondered if one could bu a copy of such an early will.

[Sylvia C]

Edna ............


thank you for that link to the nonconformist collection.

None of mine seem to be on there, which is more fuel to my new thinking that maybe "Quaker" is a red herring" for this branch of the Hayhursts?

[clematised]

Sylvia,

Never leave a stone unturned as there is always somewhere else to look

Edna

[Sylvia C]

good advice!!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Um...it's not a Will, it's an admon bond. The last one of those I bought (which by odd coincidence was also for a Miller!) was pretty useless as it only stated who had been guarantor for the bond and I could not find any further info.

I thought that by the mid 1700s, Quakers were relatively free of any overt persecution, although if you relied on paid employment, your employer/landlord might have made it clear you had to toe the C of E line - but I agree with Sylvia's doubt that they were actually full members of the Quaker faith.

OC

[Sylvia C]

Hi OC


these guys were all millers and farmers ................ sometimes they seemed to own the mills and farms, sometimes they seemed to lease or rent the properties from others. But I don't know how they would fit into the "persecution' angle.


As an interesting side note regarding property "ownership" .......

...... OH's father was born in 1910 on a farm not far from Kendal, the property dates back to the 12th century having been an outlying manor for a monastery until the Dissolution. Descendents of his cousin still work that same farm, with a continuous occupancy going back to at least 1887. It has always been leased by them .......... the property was sold about 20 or years ago, and the new owner was quite happy to have the lease continue. These were not the Hayhursts, but from the other side of the family.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Oooh, I must thank you for this thread! It prompted me to look at George Fox (Quaker founder) and to my astonishment I read that he had a vision "on Pendle Hill". I have been trying to find a religious connection for nearly 40 years to Pendle Hill in the mid 1600s, because an ancestor of mine (born 1700) was stated to have a grandfather who "regularly worshipped at a secret place on Pendle Hill". As the family were strong nonconformists (Methodists) from 1700 onwards, I hadn't even considered they might have been briefly Quakers!

Yes, property ownership - I can show you a property which stayed in the same family for over 600 years and the clue was in the rent charged, which stated something like - by the terms of the Lady Sisely's Marriage Dowry, 1262. She married into the holden family at that time and the land was occupied/tenanted by Holdens right up until the 1880s (and maybe beyond!). I have found land ownership/transactions to be of invaluable help in compiling my tree, as these records exist from time immemorial, unlike church bmds.

Also - and your Hayhursts may have been the same - the Holdens concealed a lot of land from the Crown under copyhold, but the coopyhold was always granted to kinsfolk. I bet that's what your Hayhursts were doing with their mills and farms!

OC

[Vonny North West]

Oooh, I must thank you for this thread! It prompted me to look at George Fox (Quaker founder) and to my astonishment I read that he had a vision "on Pendle Hill". I have been trying to find a religious connection for nearly 40 years to Pendle Hill in the mid 1600s, because an ancestor of mine (born 1700) was stated to have a grandfather who "regularly worshipped at a secret place on Pendle Hill". As the family were strong nonconformists (Methodists) from 1700 onwards, I hadn't even considered they might have been briefly Quakers!

Yes, property ownership - I can show you a property which stayed in the same family for over 600 years and the clue was in the rent charged, which stated something like - by the terms of the Lady Sisely's Marriage Dowry, 1262. She married into the holden family at that time and the land was occupied/tenanted by Holdens right up until the 1880s (and maybe beyond!). I have found land ownership/transactions to be of invaluable help in compiling my tree, as these records exist from time immemorial, unlike church bmds.

Also - and your Hayhursts may have been the same - the Holdens concealed a lot of land from the Crown under copyhold, but the coopyhold was always granted to kinsfolk. I bet that's what your Hayhursts were doing with their mills and farms!

OC

Oh, nice one OC! This is better than watching a soap opera! How sneaky. It's a bit like "off shore accounts"!
Vonny