Hitting brick wall(s)

[tsr2007]

Family Picture

This is a picture from my Mom and Dad wedding album. Harry Ryder on the left and either Lorne or James Elizabeth and Gertrude.
DSCN4534.jpg

[tsr2007]

Both sets of grandparents are buried in the same cemetery. DSCN4507.jpg

[Olde Crone Holden]

Perhaps a mod could merge this post please:

http://www.familytreeforum.com/showt...a123-Thank-you!!!

This proves that Harry was not a child of the marriage and therefore it is even more likely that the Harry RYDAS Davies birth cert is him.

OC

[Katarzyna]

Good news Steve - now you know for sure that William definitely cannot have been Harry's father. That birth cert for Harry Rydas Davies, as OC says, is a must get!!!.

This is possibly the death for William Ryder:
Name: William Ryder
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Registration Year: 1904
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 40
Registration district: Meriden
vol:6d p338

William's mother was still living in Balsall in 1901 - 1911

Jane Ryder
Age in 1911: 72
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Sulgrave, Northamptonshire, England
Civil Parish: Balsall
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address: Fen End Temple Balsall Knowle
Marital Status: Widowed

I wonder if he went to be with her when he knew he had cancer {My reasoning: that Balsall was within the Meriden Reg Dist but William, Hannah and the children were in Solihull reg dist for 1901 and Hannah (as Mills) were in Aston for 1911 censuses.}

[tsr2007]

I think Harry was born after the fact and they have or could have Harry as down and birth abt 1906 when we think it was around 1904 or 1905 as a 5 can be mistaken for a 4 or a 6.

[Katarzyna]

Why do you think Harry was born in 1904/5? If William is the father then the child would have been born November 1904 at the latest not 1905.

His birth from the 1911 census. his emigration and his marriage ALL give him born 1906, why would he lie about his age. He would more likely to have lied and said 1904 on those docs so that others would believe his father was William but he didn't.

[tsr2007]

This is True I am just referring to the letter that I reposted. (Thank you admins your awesome!!) This birth of Harry in 1906 could be. But The letter stated Gertie was born in 1899 but her Grave states 1900. I think I can and should give or take 1 year. I mentioned that this is new to me and I am trying to figure out possibilities and what could be and what is. This Letter that I reposted shows that Harry was not born yet and when he was it was from what we came up with was an illittemit child and Hannah gave him the last name Ryder so it would not look bad on her. I feel OC is trying to say there is no Harry at all when in fact there is a Harry. Also we have proof that Harry went back to England with his wife and saw his brother Copeland.

We have a picture of the house where Copeland lived. Just have to figure what area to place this photo so some one might have seen this place.

Still the search is never ending and will come to a close. Just have to find that document that some one transcribed wrong. From Rider to Ryder or vise-versa.

[tsr2007]

Good news Steve - now you know for sure that William definitely cannot have been Harry's father. That birth cert for Harry Rydas Davies, as OC says, is a must get!!!.

This is possibly the death for William Ryder:
Name: William Ryder
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Registration Year: 1904
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 40
Registration district: Meriden
vol:6d p338

William's mother was still living in Balsall in 1901 - 1911

Jane Ryder
Age in 1911: 72
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Sulgrave, Northamptonshire, England
Civil Parish: Balsall
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address: Fen End Temple Balsall Knowle
Marital Status: Widowed

I wonder if he went to be with her when he knew he had cancer {My reasoning: that Balsall was within the Meriden Reg Dist but William, Hannah and the children were in Solihull reg dist for 1901 and Hannah (as Mills) were in Aston for 1911 censuses.}

This is a possibility. The other thing is Harry is hard to find on some census...... I am wondering if Harry was sent to a DBH........ During his younger years until he decided to come to Canada Meanwhile still in contact with his Mom. I say this Katarzyna123 because of how Harry found his sisters when he came to Canada which Terri and I figured out. It would be the only reasonable solution. which I (we) can explain. (Katarzyna is fast!!!!and Amazing)

Thank you
Steve

[tsr2007]

OMG I have been looking at maps of England!!!! wholly it can be confusing if you are not a citizen there!!! I can now see where and how close people and places are and makes it easier to think about the possibilities like katarzyna mentioned which is very likely!!! It is like an area inside of an area inside of that areas in that secion of town in that neighbourhood on that street which run thru........... wowzers!!!

[Olde Crone Holden]

Steve

Not sure why you think I am saying that Harry didn't exist? Yes of course he existed but he certainly wasn't William Ryder's child and he didn't go into Barnados with his half siblings because he is not mentioned on the letter you have received from them.

Ages/dates of birth on gravestones are unreliable because no one has to prove an age to put it on a gravestone and relatives quite often don't know exactly how old someone was. Barnados records are far more likely to be accurate because they were nearer the time of her birth (and maybe they have her birth cert.) Gertrude's birth was recorded Q1 in 1900 so she could have been born Nov/December 1899.

OC

[tsr2007]

We just googled Meriden. It is a historical site now!!! it is beautiful!!!!!

[Katarzyna]

As Harry is with his mother's sister on the 1911 census - see post #31 - it is likely that he stayed either with them or (as he is included as a step son on Tom Mills Service record) that he went back to live with his mother. I might be wrong but I'm sure his sisters would still be able to keep in contact with their family back in England and they would have been married by the time Harry went out there to find them in 1927.

[tsr2007]

From what the BH said is they would send some one out (like an inspector) to over see the children and their well-being. We feel that the girls would not know where their mother would be as they were young at the time. The BH reported to some of the parents if they wished a report on their children and with this the kids would send a letter to Mommy and say we are doing fine.
This letter would be sent to the girls mother (as she had moved a few times and notified the BH). So Harry while growing up was sent out to farming (possibly once again thru the BHC or as a census said he was with relatives on a farm)and when he was old enough and had money he said Mom I am going to Canada to have a better life see what it is like.
This is where Harry would only know about where his sisters were. There was no other way he would know and Harry's mom told Harry .... here is where your sisters are go and find them...... This is our theory as the only contact thru the parents and the BHChildren was thru the BH. Now saying this it is a possibility and sounds a lot more likely.

[Sammy794]

I have come to this thread late in response but have been following the progress.

Steve

I think you need to forget family lore and follow the facts and documented evidence as laid out in this thread by the very good researchers/members of this forum.

I think they have done a sterling job and now some purchase of certificates and the Dr Barnado's records is required.

[margaretmarch]

I have come to this thread late in response but have been following the progress.

Steve

I think you need to forget family lore and follow the facts and documented evidence as laid out in this thread by the very good researchers/members of this forum.

I think they have done a sterling job and now some purchase of certificates and the Dr Barnado's records is required.

Dr Barnardos have replied and will not give out detailed information about individuals to a third party but they have given some dates of birth for the other children in the family and the date of death for their father which has helped tsr2007 to clarify the date of birth for Harry Ryder and that he was illegitimate.

Certificates are all that is required but if Harry was illegitimate his BC will not really help.

Margaret

[Olde Crone Holden]

Margaret

Harry's birth cert is registered as Harry Rydas Davis, which means that there is a father's name on the certificate, so it would definitely be worth getting it in my opinion.

It doesn't seem as if Harry was ever in Barnados, but I don't know if Steve asked them that question. Gertrude's next of kin could apply for her (Gertrude's) records of course but I'm not sure that would get us any further forward as it is Harry we are interested in.

OC

[margaretmarch]

I have come to this thread late in response but have been following the progress.

Steve

I think you need to forget family lore and follow the facts and documented evidence as laid out in this thread by the very good researchers/members of this forum.

I think they have done a sterling job and now some purchase of certificates and the Dr Barnado's records is required.

Dr Barnardos have replied and will not give out detailed information about individuals to a third party but they have given some dates of birth for the other children in the family and the date of death for their father which has helped tsr2007 to clarify the date of birth for Harry Ryder and that he was illegitimate.

Certificates are all that is required but if Harry was illegitimate his BC will not really help.

Margaret

[Sammy794]

Margaret

Harry's birth cert is registered as Harry Rydas Davis, which means that there is a father's name on the certificate, so it would definitely be worth getting it in my opinion.

It doesn't seem as if Harry was ever in Barnados, but I don't know if Steve asked them that question. Gertrude's next of kin could apply for her (Gertrude's) records of course but I'm not sure that would get us any further forward as it is Harry we are interested in.

OC

What OC said, it is worth getting that birth certificate.

[margaretmarch]

What OC said, it is worth getting that birth certificate.

Agreed - having looked back and seen the full story
Margaret

[tsr2007]

We will get certificates. It will take time as they expensive. Until that time comes we will continue the research and verify what has been done so far. Katarzyna123 has been awesome in what she has come up with and she is amazing at helping out!!!! This search continues...... Thank you to everyone for your input.