Searching for a man!

[Thetallone]

Afraid it merely confirms -

i)that Peter Dolan didn't marry Louisa Bamford (see #103)

ii)that the Peter Dolan who married in 1843 wasn't the son of another Peter - does the cert specify an age for Peter, or does it just say "of full age"? :(

Jay

Sadly, it just says Full Age BUT for the first time I have seen a "X" on a certificate. Ann Dunn could not write.
I didn't expect it to name Louisa so I wasn't disappointed. Also it gives a name for Peter's father.

Kev

[Thetallone]

Perhaps this is Peter & family in 1881?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=peter&gsln=dolan&msbdy=1817&msbpn__ftp=Ireland&msbpn=3250&msbpn_PInfo=3-%7c0%7c1652381%7c0%7c3250%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c&uidh=b78&pcat=1881UKI&h=25567144&db=uki1881&indiv=1&ml_rpos=2

Jay

Yes, this looks like him. Can you make out the address? I can't.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Yes, this looks like him. Can you make out the address? I can't.

36 Brownell Branwell Bramwell St?????

Jay

[Thetallone]

36 Brownell Branwell Bramwell St?????

Jay

It's Bramwell St. I know this street though the old Bramwell St. has long since gone to be replaced with modern houses. Itretained its name though. Never heard of the other 2 streets you thought it might be.
Thanks Jay

Kev

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I think this is the same family as the one in 1881

1861

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/WRYRG9_3479_3482-0499/11523050?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dpeter%26gsln%3ddolan%26msbdy%3d1817%26msbpn__ftp%3dIreland%26msbpn%3d3250%26msbpn_PInfo%3d3-%257c0%257c1652381%257c0%257c3250%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c%26uidh%3db78%26msbdp%3d5%26pcat%3d1861UKI%26h%3d11523050%26db%3duki1861%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

1871

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/WRYRG10_4680_4682-0185/28401251?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dpeter%26gsln%3ddolan%26msbdy%3d1817%26msbpn__ftp%3dIreland%26msbpn%3d3250%26msbpn_PInfo%3d3-%257c0%257c1652381%257c0%257c3250%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c%26uidh%3db78%26msbdp%3d5%26pcat%3d1871UKI%26h%3d28401251%26db%3duki1871%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

However, nothing to confirm it is definitely the Peter Dolan you are interested in.
Notice that in both 1861 & 1871 son Francis is recorded as born in Ireland c1843/4 Also wife Ann born in Ireland. Dunn is a good old Irish name (have a Catherine & a Julia Dunn from Galway and of a similar age in my own tree!) It's possible she went home to Ireland to her mum for the birth of her first baby, or son Francis could have been born a Dunn, or the family went back to Ireland for work; I'm just pointing out possible anomalies so that we don't make assumptions.

Jay

As yet, I haven't found them in 1851.

[Thetallone]

I have recieved the wedding cert for Louisa Bamford and Francis King. There are no alterations. Date 147th March 1845. Francis is recorded as a widower, an engineer, lived at Buxton, father named as Thomas King, miner. Louisa is recorded as a spinster, no job, lived at Buxton ( co habiting with Francis?) father named as William Bamford, forge man. Both fathers alive. I can't make out the church where the marriage took place. The registration district is Bakewell.

I wonder if she left Philip to be brought up by Hannah, his grandmother, while she went off to Buxton with Francis to leave a past life and an illigitimacy behind?

Kev

[Darksecretz]

I have recieved the wedding cert for Louisa Bamford and Francis King. There are no alterations. Date 147th March 1845. Francis is recorded as a widower, an engineer, lived at Buxton, father named as Thomas King, miner. Louisa is recorded as a spinster, no job, lived at Buxton ( co habiting with Francis?) father named as William Bamford, forge man. Both fathers alive. I can't make out the church where the marriage took place. The registration district is Bakewell.

I wonder if she left Philip to be brought up by Hannah, his grandmother, while she went off to Buxton with Francis to leave a past life and an illigitimacy behind?

Kev

Thats a good date there Kev... if you have the cert scanned i'll have a stab at reading it if you would like

[Darksecretz]

hmm I wouldn't take that the name of the father who is William Bamford to be alive either, when the bride or groom is asked 'name of father' that would be just what they got, what I am trying to say is that even though it is said that he wasn't dead he could have been..

if this William is the same one that was married to Hannah Bamford who was a widow on the 1841 that is.

[Thetallone]

Thats a good date there Kev... if you have the cert scanned i'll have a stab at reading it if you would like

Yes March 1845 did have a lot of days in it!:o it should say 17th March

Busy for a day or two but I'll see if I can find time to scan it. Ta!

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I have recieved the wedding cert for Louisa Bamford and Francis King. There are no alterations. Date 147th March 1845. Francis is recorded as a widower, an engineer, lived at Buxton, father named as Thomas King, miner. Louisa is recorded as a spinster, no job, lived at Buxton ( co habiting with Francis?) father named as William Bamford, forge man. Both fathers alive. I can't make out the church where the marriage took place. The registration district is Bakewell.

I wonder if she left Philip to be brought up by Hannah, his grandmother, while she went off to Buxton with Francis to leave a past life and an illigitimacy behind?
Kev

She would need to work to keep herself and her child (no child maintenance in those days) - most common child care arrangement in those days was for baby to be brought up by grandparents.
One thing we haven't mentioned on this thread is searching for a possible bastardy order - these are usually at county record offices. Would the family have come under Sheffield or Derbyshire? I would try BOTH.

Jay

[Thetallone]

She would need to work to keep herself and her child (no child maintenance in those days) - most common child care arrangement in those days was for baby to be brought up by grandparents.
One thing we haven't mentioned on this thread is searching for a possible bastardy order - these are usually at county record offices. Would the family have come under Sheffield or Derbyshire? I would try BOTH.

Jay

Good grief! I've never heard of a bastardy order. What is one of those? At the time Philip was born, I think Wortley would come under Sheffield but I'd have to check.

Kev

[Thetallone]

There is a possibility that this is Louisa's father. By the time Louisa got married, he would be about 77 years old. Not likely if he was a Forgeman as Louisa said on her wedding cert. Also he is not mentioned in the 1841 ( I think) census. Just Hannah and Philip. He could easily have been dead by then. I haven't turned up a death entry for him yet but with a name like that and living in Wortley, I think it is highly likely he was a family member of some sort.

Name: William Bamforth
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 17 Jul 1768
Christening Place: WORTLEY BY PENISTONE,YORK,ENGLAND
Father's Name: John Bamforth

Kev.

[Thetallone]

And there's this.

Louisa Bolmford
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 26 Jan 1817
Christening Place: WORTLEY BY PENISTONE,YORK,ENGLAND
Father's Name: William Bolmford
Mother's Name: Hannah

[Darksecretz]

Yes March 1845 did have a lot of days in it!:o it should say 17th March

Busy for a day or two but I'll see if I can find time to scan it. Ta!

no problemo.

just a thought, it might be easier to create a mini tree of this lot on say Ancestry, and i'd also be looking at like you have already done by going through the bapts for Wortley by Penistone and trying to create family groups etc.. it should help to tie in various Bamford relations.

[margaretmarch]

Good grief! I've never heard of a bastardy order. What is one of those? At the time Philip was born, I think Wortley would come under Sheffield but I'd have to check.

Kev

The Bastardy Order was an investigation by the grandees of the Parish into who the father might be and for him to be charged for the expenses incurred in the birth and up keep of the mother and child whilst in the care of the Parish eg the Workhouse. The Order was made when the man was identified and judged to be responsible and he had to pay up!

A bit like the Child Support Agency used to do - don't know who does that now.

Have a look here http://archiveswiki.wyjs.org.uk/inde...astardy_orders

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Here's another site to look at http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.c...ire/Yesterday/
I'm not well up on the geography of Yorshire and the places you are looking at - born and bred in Lancashire!!

Margaret

[Janet in Yorkshire]

The link below is from an entry in the online catalogue of the East Yorkshire Archives
It was very useful in my case as it named the putative father.

The child's mother (Dinah) was a witness at the marriage of her elder sister. The other witness turned out to be a workmate of the groom and the putative father. We often wonder if the couple met at the wedding and then one thing led to another!

http://www.eastriding.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=zQSU%2f3%2f4%2f12&pos=66

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Another place to look for suits re paternity is local newspaper reports of court proceedings.
I've just come across one such this afternoon, whilst doing a bit of local history research in the British Newspaper Archives.

Jay

[Thetallone]

Where did you look in the 1851 census Jay, to find this information? Top of page 11 on this thread.