Searching for a woman!

[Chrissie Smiff]

Mis-transcribed marriage in 1909 Sheffield of an Elizabeth Ann Ibbotson reads 9c 744 and should be 9c 714 - under 9c 714 is a Rueben Watson. Also on the page a Mary Gertrude Henderson and Thomas Rowland Wood.
Sorry - should have said March quarter 1909.

[margaretmarch]

Mis-transcribed marriage in 1909 Sheffield of an Elizabeth Ann Ibbotson reads 9c 744 and should be 9c 714 - under 9c 714 is a Rueben Watson. Also on the page a Mary Gertrude Henderson and Thomas Rowland Wood.

Oh well spotted Chrissie!

Just going to search West Yorkshire Marriages to see if the register entry is there.
Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Oh well spotted Chrissie!

Just going to search West Yorkshire Marriages to see if the register entry is there.
Margaret

Doesn't seem to be there :(
Margaret

[Chrissie Smiff]

No I looked too Margaret and couldn't see either of the marriages:(

[margaretmarch]

Sorry I should have explained. On FreeBMD there will often be several names of people who married in that district and in the same quarter. In this case there were 4 names. Its then a case of working out who married who. I'd worked out that Sarah Hawkins married William Leeson so that meant that Reuben Watson married Elizabeth Wilkinson. The 2 couples are probably not connected

But why was her name Wilkinson when she was previously either Brotherh(w)wood or Ibbotson?
Margaret

[Night Owl]

But why was her name Wilkinson when she was previously either Brotherh(w)wood or Ibbotson?
Margaret

It may be a red herring - especially in view of the marriage entry Chrissie has just found

[Thetallone]

Hi,

I don't want to nit pick, but Hucknall under Huthwaite is not the same place as 'Hucknall' this is very confusing I realise for those that do not know the area

'Hucknall under Huthwaite' is now known as simply 'Huthwaite' which is not very far from Sutton in Ashfield.

Hucknall, which was once called 'Hucknall Torkard' is near to Kirkby in Ashfield.

there is another Hucknall - 'Ault Hucknall' this is very near to Hardwick Hall in Derbyshire/Bolsover district.

I know it is confusing, but not so when you do know the area.. [I also know that Ancestry also have some of Hucknall and Hucknall under Huthwaite census images muddled up!..

I'll have a proper read through this thread and then see if I can assist any further.

welcome to the forum :smilee:

Please feel free to nit pick as much as you want. Your nit picking has exposed a transcriptional error made by yours truly. The information I posted about Newcastle Street was supplied by a volunteer worker (I think) at Southwell Workhouse. It SHOULD read " 63 Newcastle Street, Hucknall under Huthwaite ( NOW JUST HUTHWAITE) , Sutton in Ashfield.

I posted "now just Hucknall" which is clearly wrong. Many thanks for pointing out this error! I shall have to be more careful.

[Darksecretz]

not to worry Kevin! :smilee: it's very easy when the areas all have similar sounding names.

I have been looking at George Brotherhood b. 1828 MANSFIELD this is the George that is on the 1881 with other children but not Elizabeth Ann at Sneinton [[byron st]]

I can spot him in most census but not 1861.. just can't seem to spot Elizabeth Ann anywhere! I did wonder if perhaps she was given a different name at birth but then changed it, I don't know yet!..... I have been through my discs for Nottinghamshire and cannot find anything remote, I had seen the cluster of Brotherhoods in Sneinton and looking further there do seem to be other clusters of them in Leicestershire/Warwickshire. hmmmm.

do you happen to know of any other children that she had at all? [I am wondering if any names did get passed on down the family at all]

[Thetallone]

not to worry Kevin! :smilee: it's very easy when the areas all have similar sounding names.

I have been looking at George Brotherhood b. 1828 MANSFIELD this is the George that is on the 1881 with other children but not Elizabeth Ann at Sneinton [[byron st]]

I can spot him in most census but not 1861.. just can't seem to spot Elizabeth Ann anywhere! I did wonder if perhaps she was given a different name at birth but then changed it, I don't know yet!..... I have been through my discs for Nottinghamshire and cannot find anything remote, I had seen the cluster of Brotherhoods in Sneinton and looking further there do seem to be other clusters of them in Leicestershire/Warwickshire. hmmmm.

do you happen to know of any other children that she had at all? [I am wondering if any names did get passed on down the family at all]

The only children I know of is George Ibbotson. My mum can't remember any others but that does not mean others did not exist. When my mum, as a girl, asked her mum, Mary Elizabeth about her ancestors her request was stiffled and the atmosphere she sensed was one of "should not be asking"

i too have found Brotherhoods in Leics. it's not that far from Notts so maybe there are possibilities there.

Kevin

[Darksecretz]

The only children I know of is George Ibbotson. My mum can't remember any others but that does not mean others did not exist. When my mum, as a girl, asked her mum, Mary Elizabeth about her ancestors her request was stiffled and the atmosphere she sensed was one of "should not be asking"

i too have found Brotherhoods in Leics. it's not that far from Notts so maybe there are possibilities there.

Kevin

I know what you mean it wasn't 'the done thing' to talk about your past then, let alone ask questions about it!..

[Guest]

Which George are your effecting to please?

the one on your other link in Sheffield , where you say you are checking out George Brotherhood

[Thetallone]

I know what you mean it wasn't 'the done thing' to talk about your past then, let alone ask questions about it!..

Especially if there were secrets from a dark past!

[margaretmarch]

Especially if there were secrets from a dark past!

Well, illegitimate children and living together without or before marriage were very much frowned upon in those days and so people kept it all hidden even from the children concerned.
Margaret

[Darksecretz]

Especially if there were secrets from a dark past!

oh yes!.. it does seem odd though that she doesn't appear until she enters the infirmary though!.. makes me wonder if she did use a different name to what she was given initially.. maybe we had better wait until the b/cert? arrives, did you say that you sent off for that marriage cert too?

[Thetallone]

Well, illegitimate children and living together without or before marriage were very much frowned upon in those days and so people kept it all hidden even from the children concerned.
Margaret

Haha! It makes me laugh!! Here I have a great grandmother who gave birth in a workhouse, father unknown, 2 grandmothers who were both pregnant when they got married and the males were either labourers, coal miners or steel workers. Not a rich uncle in sight. Tony Benn would have been proud of my heritage.

[Thetallone]

oh yes!.. it does seem odd though that she doesn't appear until she enters the infirmary though!.. makes me wonder if she did use a different name to what she was given initially.. maybe we had better wait until the b/cert? arrives, did you say that you sent off for that marriage cert too?

I have sent for a birth certificate for Priscilla Ibbotson. I'm not sure which marriage certificate you refer to.

Kevin

[Darksecretz]

I have sent for a birth certificate for Priscilla Ibbotson. I'm not sure which marriage certificate you refer to.

Kevin

sorry, my error I meant the birth :emb: have been looking in yorkshire for clues and not found much really, sorry.

[Thetallone]

the one on your other link in Sheffield , where you say you are checking out George Brotherhood

The only information I have is shown below sent to me by a member of Sheffield History Forum. I haven't had chance to research it further yet.

If it helps, the following Brotherhoods were baptised at Sneinton. You might want to see if you can find the corresponding BMD registrations for them.


County Nottinghamshire Nottinghamshire Nottinghamshire
Place Sneinton Sneinton Sneinton
Church St Stephen St Stephen St Stephen
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 25 Nov 1868 25 Nov 1868 04 Aug 1872
Forename Arthur George Francis James George James
Sex M M M
FatherForename George George Sarah
MotherForename Ann Ann Annie
FatherSurname BROTHERHOOD BROTHERHOOD BROTHERHOOD
MotherSurname
Abode Byron St Byron St Colton Terr
FatherOccupation FWK FWK Joiner
Notes
FileNumber 16440 16440 16452

[margaretmarch]

I think you need to send for the marriage certificate for Elizabeth either to Harry Ibbotson or Reuben Watson as that will give you her father's name which is really what you are looking for to be able to go back another generation. It should also show whether the name Brotherhood was her birth name or not - she may have been married when she gave birth to Mary Elizabeth and thrown out by the husband because it was not his child - who knows - until you get a maiden name you won't have a chance of finding out.

Margaret

[Thetallone]

I think you need to send for the marriage certificate for Elizabeth either to Harry Ibbotson or Reuben Watson as that will give you her father's name which is really what you are looking for to be able to go back another generation. It should also show whether the name Brotherhood was her birth name or not - she may have been married when she gave birth to Mary Elizabeth and thrown out by the husband because it was not his child - who knows - until you get a maiden name you won't have a chance of finding out.

Margaret

No problem. Do you have vol and page number for either marriage? If not tell me where to look to get them please, and I'll send off to GRO for them.
incidently, unless I've missed something, I didn't realise she married Harry Ibbotson. In fact I've never come across a Harry Ibbotson before.

Kevin