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Burial procedures in working class 19th Century London - help, please.

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  • Burial procedures in working class 19th Century London - help, please.

    I'm stuck in my search for any record of my great grandmother's death. She was definitely alive in April 1898 but by 1901 her husband was listing himself as widower in the Census. The story that has always circulated in the family is that she died in childbirth.

    There is no record of her - as far as I can see - in the official register of deaths, so I have to look elsewhere. What I am not sure about is what would have been the normal procedure when a working class person died around this time in the London area? I am assuming a death in childbirth would have taken place at home. Where would the body have been taken? Where would the most likely place of burial been - the nearest church? a larger cemetery? What other records would be likely to exist? It is unlikely there would have been much money for the burial.

    She lived most of her life in Wandsworth and Lambeth - last records have her in Battersea in 1898 giving birth to my Grandmother.

    I'm trying to workout where to focus my search for some record of burial or other related event. I've tried the search function on Ancestry with no luck. Before I go to local archives I need to work out the best focus for my search.

    Any suggestions will be most appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Ross.

    (She was Isabella Amelia Ellis nee Gagg b. 1875 in Clapham)

  • #2
    First rule of family history research lol - just because someone appears on census as a widow/widower doesn't mean they actually were. Their spouse may have left them.

    However, assuming she really did die, then it would have been almost impossible to bury her without a death registration certificate - certainly illegal.

    She may have died in the workhouse hospital, rather than at home, but still her death should have been registered in the usual way (where she died, not necessarily where she lived, of course).

    I have to go out now but will have a look later.

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      It would be very unusual to not find a death certificate in the circumstances you mention - you may want to consider did she actually die at all in that period or was there a marital breakdown ? Her husband may have chosen to describe himself as a widower to avoid embarrassment if she had left him. I have seen similar cases before.

      Burial in London at that time could have been in a parish church but far more likely to be at one of the many large cemeteries which sprang up rapidly in the later Victorian period
      Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
      Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you both for that. Very helpful.

        Comment


        • #5
          Her husband, George Frederick Ellis, married Ellen Cecelia Gertrude Connor on 6 August 1905 at St Matthews
          Church, Brixton. He is described as a widower on the record.
          My avatar is my Great Grandmother Emma Gumbert

          Sue at Langley Vale

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes. There are rumours of other marriages and of George being a bigamist but the ones to Isabella and Ellen are the only two records I've seen that convince me they are him. George and Ellen appear to have separated by the time of the 1911 Census as well.

            Thanks,

            Ross.

            Comment


            • #7
              Found this death in Australia 1930 for am Esther Byrne,same parents as Isabella-
              Death Place Fitzroy, Victoria
              Age: 52
              Father Henry Gagg
              Mother Amelia Ward
              Death 1930
              Place: Victoria


              Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878

              Comment


              • #8
                There is an Isabella travelling to Australia in 1908
                Estimated Birth Year 1875
                Age: 33
                Arrival 28 Apr 1908
                Arrival Brisbane, Australia
                Departure Port London
                Ship: Miltiades
                Nationality English

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wow that is very interesting. I will investigate further. Many thanks for that.

                  Ross.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Have you found Esther Gagg marrying John Frederick Albinson?


                    GAGG, Esther marries ALBINSON, John Frederick
                    Registration district: Chorlton
                    County: Lancashire 1898 Jul-Aug-Sep 8/1400

                    RG13; Piece: 3790; Folio: 98; Page: 27
                    She is from Battersea, in Denton, Lancs....parish baptism for Amelia online, Frederick's is in the English collection but not checked family search


                    Australia Death Index, 1787-1985
                    Name: Jno Fredk Albinson
                    Death Place: Heidelberg, Victoria
                    Age: 47
                    Father's Name: Fredk Albinson
                    Mother's Name: Elizth Downs
                    Registration Year: 1921


                    Australia Death Index, 1787-1985
                    Name: Amelia Smith
                    Death Place: Preston, Victoria
                    Age: 46
                    Father's Name: Fredk Albiston
                    Mother's Name: Esther Gagg
                    Registration Year: 1946
                    Registration Place: Victoria
                    Registration number: 662
                    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
                    Registration Place: Victoria
                    Registration number: 6055
                    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874


                    Australia Death Index, 1787-1985
                    Name: Frederick Albinson
                    Death Place: Victoria
                    Age: 61
                    Father's Name: Frederi John
                    Mother's Name: Esther Gagg
                    Registration Year: 1961
                    Registration Place: Victoria
                    Registration number: 11973
                    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
                    Last edited by Elaine; 01-08-13, 21:55.
                    Elaine

                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mother Amelia marries again

                      Thomas Bullows married Amelia Gagg

                      Chorlton
                      County: Lancashire
                      1902 Oct-Nov-Dec 8C/1383

                      1891 RG12; Piece: 3239; Folio: 56; Page: 24
                      Bullows with stepdaughter Esther Gagg!!!

                      Haven't connected an Isabella with them
                      Last edited by Elaine; 01-08-13, 22:28.
                      Elaine

                      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Amelia Gagg was previously Ward when she married Bullows (Lancsbmd)

                        OC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Do you have Isabella 1881?
                          Elaine

                          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            AHA!

                            The surname is CRAGG, not GAGG.

                            Esther Ward, mmn Cragg, born 1858 Preston (and a twin sister Margaret)

                            Another Esther Ward born 1870, Walton le Dale, mmn CRAGG.

                            There are at least two Ward/Cragg marriages t account for hordes of children, lol - all on Lancsbmd.

                            There are several Isabel/la Craggs, also Lancsbmd.

                            The surname Gagg produces only a handful of hits over 150 years, so I assume Gagg is a clerical error.

                            OC

                            EDIT - to say, I think the Lancashire lot are a red herring, though probably related in an earlier generation.

                            OC
                            Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 01-08-13, 23:18.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks very much. That's a lot to work through. I don't have her in 1881 and suspect a misspelled name.

                              i'm sure Isabella was a Gagg - I have the family going back through a lot of generations - but the surname is commonly misspelled or mis-transcribed and causes a lot of headaches to research! Fortunately much of the work was already done by Alan Gagg who runs a Gagg family website.

                              You've given me some good leads. Thanks.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Actually, come to think of it, I don't have her in 1891 either. I just have her birth certificate, marriage certificate and her on her daughter's birth certificates. The census gaps are of note.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Sorry, was late when I posted. I meant to say that Amelia Gagg who married Thomas Bullows, was previously surnamed WARD and I can find several WARD connections to the CRAGG family.

                                  So, when you search, try both Gagg and Cragg. Gagg is a rare surname and many transcribers would think it was really Cragg, which is what it looks like if you write it in flowery writing!

                                  OC

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Have I been on the right lines with your Henry Gagg? Mother Isabella, grandmother Esther Johnson?
                                    Elaine

                                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Absolutely. Esther's maiden name was Damon. Isabella (Henry's mother) was married to Edmond John Gagg (my ggg grandfather) who was somewhat of a tragic figure - arrived in the middle of the famous Road Hill House murder in 1860 and (falsely) confessed. When acquitted he was put on a train to London, never to be heard of again.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Thanks to all your help I have managed to solve this particular problem and have found Isabella's death certificate - 1900 in Manchester. As she was London born and her husband and child were both born in and died in the capital, I would never have thought to start looking in Manchester. It was discovering through this thread that her Mother had remarried and moved there that widened my search and let me find her. Thanks.

                                        Ross.

                                        Comment

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