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Tough Nut to Crack!

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  • #41
    Thats another thing we dont know he really was 34 when he married ? could have lied many did, sorry to put a damper on it .

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    • #42
      sory but where did you get his date of birth from?

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      • #43
        This question may have been asked before, in which case I apologise, but how do you know he was born in Wooolwich if you don't have his birth cert?
        Judith passed away in October 2018

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        • #44
          Just had a thought what about looking for his Fathers Marriage record ? There is a Stephen George marrying in Haverford West in 1892 to a Maria John

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          • #45
            ignore that found him in 1901 no son called either Edward or James

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            • #46
              I thank you all for looking, I feel very miserable at the moment! Birthday 7th Sept written on the back of marriage cert. Woolwi.ch, place that was mentioned. Nobody alive to ask. Feel like digging a big hole and sinking into it! Havorfordwest is not in equation, too far away. I have looked and gone through everything I could, have found many of the people I htought was him dead as a child or the death date different which rules them out. Just nowhere to be found. He appears as if by magic on his marriage certificate - no WW1 record although he did say when he was alive he served in the Royal Sussex Regiment. Where do I go now? His father, non-existent, I have looked through the directories and cannot pinpoint him as a baker anywhere. In desperation I have sent for a birth certificate that was registered in Greenwich, I pray to God the parents didn't register him for at least 4 months! I am totally loosing it over this seach!
              I am signing off, compulsive, obsesive.
              Vonny.

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              • #47
                Vonny, I feel for you. I can imagine how frustrated you are feeling; I have come across similar problems before and usually the answer is found eventually - so don't give up. Have you considered there's been a surname change at some time? It does happen. Good luck.

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                • #48
                  Another day another start! I focused my efforts this morning on trying to track down Stephen Williams father of Edward James, I may have found him - deceased - as it states on the marriage certificate of Edward. Death, Mar.qtr. 1919 Age 73, WoolWich 1d 1720, also checked http://www.deceasedonline.com/ and found that he was buried on the 17th Jan.1919 Charlton Cemetary (Greenwich) which does put me bang on with the death registration and also the area I was searching. That would put his year of birth at c.1856. I did a full record seach for him but there isn't one census return. So now what do I do? Send for this certifcate and pray it is the right person?

                  All opinions and advice welcomed!

                  Vonny.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Vonny North West View Post
                    Another day another start! I focused my efforts this morning on trying to track down Stephen Williams father of Edward James, I may have found him - deceased - as it states on the marriage certificate of Edward. Death, Mar.qtr. 1919 Age 73, WoolWich 1d 1720, also checked http://www.deceasedonline.com/ and found that he was buried on the 17th Jan.1919 Charlton Cemetary (Greenwich) which does put me bang on with the death registration and also the area I was searching. That would put his year of birth at c.1856. I did a full record seach for him but there isn't one census return. So now what do I do? Send for this certifcate and pray it is the right person?

                    All opinions and advice welcomed!

                    Vonny.
                    Just got back from a week away and had another look at your thread. I have contacted Peterborough library to see if they have the electoral registers for 1925 to 1934 for the 2 address you have given for Edward so fingers crossed they have them and I can maybe look at them next time I am in the town.

                    The burial record looks good and getting the death cert sounds like the best way forward - you will get an informant name which with any luck will help. You could try contacting the cemetery first though to see if they can tell you any more from their records before you shell out for the death cert.

                    Margaret

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                    • #50
                      Vonny, really sorry to rain on your parade but I'm not convinced the death is 'your' Stephen. See here ...... http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...ngland&indiv=1

                      He's living Charlton Kent, his occupation - Carpenter.

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                      • #51
                        Vonny

                        What was Edward James' occupation on marriage certificate and did it say he was a bachelor?

                        Vera

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                        • #52
                          Oh Susan! My head is in my hands! What do I do now? I seem to find obsticles which ever way I turn, perhaps he changed his trade? Perhaps his son got it wrong on the marriage certificate and didn't know really what he did? Perhaps I will jsut curl up and cry!!!! Where do I go from here?
                          Very frustrated,
                          Vonny.

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                            Vonny

                            What was Edward James' occupation on marriage certificate and did it say he was a bachelor?

                            Vera
                            He was a finshmonger, his father -in-law was also a fishmonger and I suspect the father-in-law gave him a job at that time. He was a batchelor aged 34 on his marriage certificate, his bride Harriet Masters was 33. Larer he worked as
                            theatre stage lights operator (during WW2) and then a spray painter.
                            Vonny

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                            • #54
                              Take a few deep breaths and calm down, Vonny ;) Eventually with collaboration we may sort it. I think it worth following Louisa, Stephen Williams wife in 1911, they have been married only 9yrs and I think her name was Roper. Now she was born in Colchester Essex and I've found her in Lancs on earlier census AND she was with some Williams. I've not had time to pursue this line of enquiry but do think it worth the effort. Or, could Edward James be a grandson of Stephen, maybe born illegitimately to one of Stephen's dau's? Not sure whether I'll have time to look tonight, but another member may get on the case!
                              Last edited by Guest; 03-08-13, 18:38.

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                              • #55
                                Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                                Just got back from a week away and had another look at your thread. I have contacted Peterborough library to see if they have the electoral registers for 1925 to 1934 for the 2 address you have given for Edward so fingers crossed they have them and I can maybe look at them next time I am in the town.

                                The burial record looks good and getting the death cert sounds like the best way forward - you will get an informant name which with any luck will help. You could try contacting the cemetery first though to see if they can tell you any more from their records before you shell out for the death cert.

                                Margaret
                                Hello Margaret, I trust you had a lovely week away. As you have seen I am still having ups and downs - more downs than ups at the moment! Whoever the informat is might not be what one would expect, and I think the cemetary might only give me the plot number which I can get from http://www.deceasedonline.com/ . What else would the cemetary be able to tell me?
                                Vonny

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                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Vonny North West View Post
                                  Hello Margaret, I trust you had a lovely week away. As you have seen I am still having ups and downs - more downs than ups at the moment! Whoever the informat is might not be what one would expect, and I think the cemetary might only give me the plot number which I can get from http://www.deceasedonline.com/ . What else would the cemetary be able to tell me?
                                  Vonny
                                  Well the cemetery might be able to say if there is anyone else in the plot, maybe who owns it - not sure but it's worth an email surely - no stone unturned is my motto!

                                  It seems to me that there is something odd here and illegitimacy is a usual confounder of researchers as people try to cover it up by inventing a father which then leads us all astray.

                                  We will hopefully be able to resolve this is some way or another with the help of people on here.

                                  I will let you know what I get back from the library.

                                  Margaret

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                                  • #57
                                    Many thanks Margaret, you have given me hope! Illigitimate - never thought of that. I will see what I can find from the grave - as it were!
                                    Vonny.

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                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by susan h View Post
                                      Take a few deep breaths and calm down, Vonny ;) Eventually with collaboration we may sort it. I think it worth following Louisa, Stephen Williams wife in 1911, they have been married only 9yrs and I think her name was Roper. Now she was born in Colchester Essex and I've found her in Lancs on earlier census AND she was with some Williams. I've not had time to pursue this line of enquiry but do think it worth the effort. Or, could Edward James be a grandson of Stephen, maybe born illegitimately to one of Stephen's dau's? Not sure whether I'll have time to look tonight, but another member may get on the case!
                                      Many thanks for looking Susan, yes I am now calm - got a glass of wine - not that I drink a lot, I just felt I needed one!!
                                      It really is an interesting line you seem to have found, my fingers are crossed (plus everything else) that the puzzle will be solved - eventually.
                                      Vonny.

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                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                                        Well the cemetery might be able to say if there is anyone else in the plot, maybe who owns it - not sure but it's worth an email surely - no stone unturned is my motto!

                                        It seems to me that there is something odd here and illegitimacy is a usual confounder of researchers as people try to cover it up by inventing a father which then leads us all astray.

                                        We will hopefully be able to resolve this is some way or another with the help of people on here.

                                        I will let you know what I get back from the library.

                                        Margaret
                                        Hello Margaret, I have checked out the grave details, the only other person in the grave is Emma Jane Williams who was buried on 07/12/1900, but no age given. I will have to check the grave again for 1900 and it should have her age, then we can see if this is a wife or daughter. The address for Steven on the cemetary register is 564 Woolwich Road and the grave no. is D262.
                                        If this is his wife then I will check for a marriage.
                                        Vonny.

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                                        • #60
                                          I have now checked out Emma Jane Williams and she was the wife of Steven Williams. Died aged 57, date of death was 2/12/1900 buried 7/12/1900. The address was 78 West Street Charlton Greenwich. This gives her a year of birth of c.1843 so a lot older than her husband - interesting!
                                          Vonny.

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