Tough Nut to Crack!

[Vonny North West]

Well, I have given up on this search. No luck finding anything anywhere and I have looked everywhere I can think of, even changed names round, checked the Royal Sussex regiment, National Archives, all census, checked the births for a Sept. birth, nothing. So I will call it a day on this and just forget about it.
Vonny

[Guest]

I thought you were going to send for the Birth cert of the one born in Woolwich?

[Guest]

you dont have them in 1901 do you ?

[Guest]

what about this birth
James Edward D Williams Sep 1896 Greenwich 1D 1077

[Guest]

where did you find his birth date ?

[Vonny North West]

The registered births I found I checked out first on the 1901 and the 1911, in all cases the father's name is Charles or William instead of Stephen, which is the name of his father on his marriage certificate. His birthday date was hand written on the back of the marriage certificate - why - anyones guess? I really didn't see the point of spending money on a certificate if it was going to be the wrong one, which going by the census it would have been. I had thought of looking around the Peterborough area where he married and later died for clues, but that is a long shot. The only other clue was the Royal Sussex Regiment WW1, but again, no listing of his name whichever way you look at it, not even a medal card, which would give some indication of service even in a reserve corps. I have given up.
Vonny

[vera2013]

There is this one on the Regimental Index on GRO. Found it on FMP. Haven't been able to find it on Ancestry. Vera

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/armed-forces/details/B/3622612?rT=ARMED_FORCES&e=B&fY=1894&tY=1898&sn=williams&fns=edward&snNXF=true&fnNXF=true&fnS=M&rC=14&route=X&fromSavedRecords=1

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Very much a long shot -
Some men were transferred to a SECOND regiment in WW1 and were allocated a second service number. BOTH regiments and service numbers should be listed on the medal card index, but it is possible only the later regiment & service number were transcribed. Have you looked on the National Archives site, as they hold the original information about this index?

Jay

[Vonny North West]

Hi Janet, I have looked at the birth registration, and many thanks for looking, now just let me get my head around this. If this is a regimental birth does this mean that his father was serving in the army at that time? On the marriage certificate of 1931 his father's occupation was a baker. I have looked at the original Birth registration on FMP, thanks for the link, and it's a shame there is no mention of a year qtr. which would then confirm him as the right person. I have looked at the National Archives site and discounted what I found, the letter of the middle name didn't fit on one, the other was an officer and I discounted that because Edward James said he was a runner in the trenches and runners were picked from the ranks. I couldn't find any others. Perhaps I am not searching in the right place!? His father's name was Stephen George Williams, if he was in the army at the time would it be possible to find him listed?
My head is in a whirl now!!
Vonny.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Vonny I hope we haven't confused you.
My post (29) was quite separate from Vera's post (27)
I was trying to point out that some men got moved to another regiment, so sometimes looking for a soldier under just a "known" regiment doesn't always give the full picture, results wise. (Someone had mentioned up thread they couldn't find a medal card for your man, hence my suggestion about a search on the National Archives site. )

I think the record Vera found would be the record of the birth of the son of a serving soldier. Regular soldiers would eventually be discharged and could well take up a different trade in civvy street.

Jay

[Vonny North West]

It doesn't take much to confuse me! I understand men being moved to other regiments and getting a second number, this I found out with my grandfather, had a bit of a job to find his medal card although in that case I did have his first number to go by. In this case I just keep hitting the brick wall, so to speak. I am just totally at odds and don't know which way to go with this. The only other information which springs to mind is that he was wounded in the leg but not seriously, so would he appear on a casualty list? Does one exist?
Vonny.

[Vonny North West]

I don't know if this bit of information will be of any use in the search for Edward James Williams (birth place). On his marraige certificate of 1931 his father, Stephen George Williams (baker) was deceased. My thought was to find a death between 1896 when Edward James was born, and 1931, it might pinpoint a place to look, only problem being is that I have no year of birth for the father. Edward was 34 when he married, so it is possible that his father was born between 1857 and 1864 somewhere? The only address I have for Edward is on his marriage certificate which is 25 Crawthorne Street, Peterborough. His wife, Harriet and her family I have found without any problem.
This really is a needle in the haystack!
Vonny.

[margaretmarch]

Is it worth seeing when Edward James shows on the electoral roll at the address you have. Do you know who was living there at the time of the marriage?

Sorry if this has already been answered up thread.
Margaret

[Vonny North West]

Hi Margaret, the address at the time of marriage in 1931 was 67 St. Johns Street, Peterborough, it could be possible that he lived at this address with his father-in-law Herbert Masters who was a fishmonger. In 1934 Edward James was then living with his wife Harriet at 25 Crawthorne Street, Peterborough. After his marriage Edward also worked as a fishmonger, I suspect his father-in-law may given him this job. I hope some of this is of use.
Many thanks for still being interested enough to have a look!
Vonny.

[margaretmarch]

Hi Margaret, the address at the time of marriage in 1931 was 67 St. Johns Street, Peterborough, it could be possible that he lived at this address with his father-in-law Herbert Masters who was a fishmonger. In 1934 Edward James was then living with his wife Harriet at 25 Crawthorne Street, Peterborough. After his marriage Edward also worked as a fishmonger, I suspect his father-in-law may given him this job. I hope some of this is of use.
Many thanks for still being interested enough to have a look!
Vonny.

I'm away all this week so don't think I'm ignoring you just not able to do anything until next week.

Margaret

[Vonny North West]

I THINK I HAVE CRACKED IT!!
This really has been a toughie, but at last I think I am on the right track. I have had a few "red herrings" to sort through but I am sure this is now right. I began searching in the London area for a birth for Edward James Williams, which I think now is totally wrong. Woolwich put me on the wrong foot, there is a Woolwich in Kent and it is the Kent area I should have been in all along. There had to be a connection with the Royal Sussex Regiment, somebody born in London would naturally have signed up to one of the many London regiments in 1914, somebody born in Sussex would have naturally signed up to a Sussex Regiment, so I have Edward James born in Hastings in Sussex. His birth was registered in the Dec qtr. of 1895, his actual birth still could have been September just the registration was a bit later. His father's name of Stephen George I think was a red herring, there are not so many of that name on the census and none seemed to fit in, I think the father I have found George Edward is the right one. Edward may not have recalled his correct name as his fathr was already deceased when he married, and he would have given the names himself, also his father up to 1911 was not a baker, he worked on the railways, but perhaps Edward didn't recall what his father's occupation was and just put down the first thing that came into his head. He did have siblings, and the siblings are listed on the 1901 census and the 1911.
All I need to find now are his army papers, I just hope they do exist!

Vonny.

[Guest]

hi hope you find him , but just to warn you my grandfather was born and lived in London all his life yet he signed up to a few Regiments including Lincolnshire, so dont just concentrate on one area and good luck, I will have a look for him too.

[JudithM]

I THINK I HAVE CRACKED IT!!
This really has been a toughie, but at last I think I am on the right track. I have had a few "red herrings" to sort through but I am sure this is now right. I began searching in the London area for a birth for Edward James Williams, which I think now is totally wrong. Woolwich put me on the wrong foot, there is a Woolwich in Kent and it is the Kent area I should have been in all along. There had to be a connection with the Royal Sussex Regiment, somebody born in London would naturally have signed up to one of the many London regiments in 1914, somebody born in Sussex would have naturally signed up to a Sussex Regiment, so I have Edward James born in Hastings in Sussex. His birth was registered in the Dec qtr. of 1895, his actual birth still could have been September just the registration was a bit later. His father's name of Stephen George I think was a red herring, there are not so many of that name on the census and none seemed to fit in, I think the father I have found George Edward is the right one. Edward may not have recalled his correct name as his fathr was already deceased when he married, and he would have given the names himself, also his father up to 1911 was not a baker, he worked on the railways, but perhaps Edward didn't recall what his father's occupation was and just put down the first thing that came into his head. He did have siblings, and the siblings are listed on the 1901 census and the 1911.
All I need to find now are his army papers, I just hope they do exist!

Vonny.

Woolwich in Kent is one and the same as Woolwich, part of the Greenwich registration district. It is one of those places on the outskirts of London which were in Kent until 1889 when the county of London was created.

[Vonny North West]

I am desperate I suppose, grasping and straws spring to mind! Never thought of changes from one area to another, thanks for putting me straight, so perhaps I am just hoping out of hope that I am on the right track. It could be a case of back to square one.
Vonny

[Darksecretz]

I am not sure quite what a 'runner' would do, but maybe he wasn't a runner but a Gunner? there is a lady on here that undertakes Military Research, have you tried contacting her? [annswabey]