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James Edward Yates - Pewterer

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  • James Edward Yates - Pewterer

    I have been trying for years to work out what happened so any advice would be appreciated.This is what I know so far and where i got the information from
    1780 3 oct Birth of James Edward Yates , baptized 30 oct 1780 St Leonards Shoreditch parents Richard and Sally Yates
    1791 5 july Records of sun fire office (insurance ) off national archives at 20 Holywell St. Shoreditch JEY a pewterer – not sure this date is right as would only be 11.
    1802 18 march JEY son of Richard Yates Citizen and pewter of shoreditch made free of worshipful Company of pewterers
    1802 20 March Marriage JEY to Ann Beard had 10 children by her = off IGI so married 2 days after got freedom of city.
    1805 24 April Old bailey JEY pewterer partner is Richard Yates so father cos of info in 1806 trial; James Neagle transported
    1805 18 sept Old bailey James Yates junior lives with father 20 shoreditch so son of JEY; Richard Hart jailed 12 months
    1806 19 Feb Old bailey Richard Yates pewterer 20 shoreditch has partner son James Edward Yates Thomas Hooper jailed 6 months
    1806 Partnership of Richard & JEY dissolved 20 Shoreditch off derby mercury 15 may 1806 library online archive
    1807 15 sept Records of sun fire office (insurance ) off national archives at 20 Holywell St. Shoreditch JEY a pewterer
    1807 2 Dec Richard Yates is clerk to his brother James Edward Yates pewter 50? Shoreditch. George Petty transported 7 years
    1807 1 july Old bailey JEY pewterer 20 shoreditch Arthur Robinson jailed 6 months
    1812 15 april Records of sun fire office (insurance ) off national archives at 20 Holywell St. Shoreditch JEY a pewterer
    1818 9 nov Meeting of creditors at Guildhall JEY pewterer Morning post London
    1818 18 dec Sale by auction of goods of JEY Morning Chronicle
    1819 7 july Old bailey JEY at 20 Shoreditch; Henry Smith not guilty
    1820 List of dividends under bankruptcy
    1820 6 nov Meeting of creditors JE Yates shoreditch pewterer
    1832 13 Dec George Yates son of James Edward Yates citizen and pewterer made free ie got Freedom of City of London This is son by first marriage.
    1838 13 dec George son of JEY Freedom –off pewterers guild - no idea why two different years forsame event
    1838 1 Feb Louisa dau of Richard Yates gets Freedom off pewterers guild
    1840 15 Jan Marriage James Edward Yates widower plumber 5 Heneage St. Spitalfields father Richard Yates a pewterer to Mary Atley spinster no occ Union place Stepney Green father Henry Atley dissenting minister- JEY probably about 59yrs old(Mary was from Romford )
    1842 Possible birth of Henry in bethnal green
    1851 Henry the son aged 9 living with aunt Eliza Otley/Atley in 62 Wesley/Nesley St All Saints Newcastle Henry born Bethnal Green about 1842 so mother already dead?
    1851 london census there is another James Edward Yates living with an Anne but he is a plasterer - so did JEY marry 3 times?
    1858 Poss death of JEY in Honiton Devon June 1858
    1860 29may Marriage St Marys Newington Mr J Ferris formerly of Truro to Harriett dau of late JEY of Homerton (thats in/near Hackney London) online newspapers library
    1861 Jan Marriage of Henry at St John the Baptist Newcastle on Tyne full age, bachelor, printer, residence this parish, father John Yates an iron moulder
    Jane, full age spinster, no occ, residence this parish, father Gilbert Foggin a plumber Witnesses Gilbert Foggin and John Findley (Henry's father name is out ie John should be James Edward)
    1868 Birth of Jane Yates in Bradford she went onto marry William Haywood in 1888 in Edinburgh.
    1871 henry/Harry and Jane living with 5 children –1871 census 6 Sloane Street Bowling Bradford
    1879 19 oct Death of Henry Yates aged 37 married to Jane Foggin at 4 Dean St Edinburgh parents James Edward Yates plumber deceased and Mary Yates nee Atley deceased aged 37

    So I have searched national archives, Worshipful company of Pewterers, Pewters Guild, everything i can think of on ancestry,and family search,and Scotland People.
    but I cant find:-
    1 James Edward Yates' death or him on 1841 census - there is one but occupation is crossed out and no wife there.
    2 Mary Atley/Yates death
    3 Henry/Harry Yates birth. There are a few Henry Yates registered in 1842 but I tried applying for one Bethnal Green March qtr vol 2 p26 but got letter back saying they didnt have it.

    So what i really want to know is why did Henry /Harry get taken to Newcastle on Tyne by his Aunt?
    Why does James Edward be known as 'John' in Henry's marriage certificate but 'James Edward' in the death certificate?
    Does religion have anything to do with all this? ie Henry's mother's father was a dissenting minister and I think she named her son after her father.
    any suggestions please?
    Angelina

  • #2
    1841 Census
    YATES, Jas E
    WHITECHAPEL, Middlesex
    HO107 piece 710 folio 15/57 page 30

    Have you seen this one, he is a lead pipe manufacturer
    Henage Street, Christchurch, Tower Hamlets
    YATES, Jas E M 60 1781 Middlesex
    YATES, Mary F 40 1801
    YATES, Harriot F 28 1813 Middlesex
    YATES, Chas M 18 1823 Middlesex
    Last edited by Elaine; 22-05-13, 21:16.
    Elaine

    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Have found this marriage


      London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
      Name: Charles Yates...Clicker
      Age: Full Age
      Spouse Name: Harriet Hall
      Record Type: Marriage
      Event Date: 22 Sep 1844
      Parish: Shoreditch St Leonard
      Borough: Hackney
      Father Name: James Edward Yates
      Spouse Father Name: William James Hall
      Register Type: Parish Register

      both of Hoxton Square
      James is a pewterer
      witnesses Edwin James Hall Sarah Elizabeth Hall
      Last edited by Elaine; 22-05-13, 21:32.
      Elaine

      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

      Comment


      • #4
        So cross ref James Edward


        London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
        Name: David Yates...Grocer
        Age: Full Age
        Spouse Name: Elizabeth Presswell
        Record Type: Marriage
        Event Date: 12 Mar 1843
        Parish: Hackney St John
        Borough: Hackney
        Father Name: James Edward Yates
        Spouse Father Name: Robert Presswell
        Register Type: Parish Register

        Both of Homerton
        James is a pewterer
        witnesses Charles Yates Harriett Hall

        HE MARRIES AGAIN

        London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
        Name: David Yates...Plumber
        Age: Full Age
        Spouse Name: Ann Susannah Lack
        Record Type: Marriage
        Event Date: 1 Sep 1849
        Parish: West Hackney
        Borough: Hackney
        Father Name: James Edward Yates
        Spouse Father Name: John Lack
        Register Type: Parish Register


        London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
        Name: Louisa Yates
        Age: Full Age
        Spouse Name: James Blunsum
        Record Type: Marriage
        Event Date: 28 Dec 1853
        Parish: St Helen Bishopgate
        Borough: City of London
        Father Name: James Edward Yates
        Spouse Father Name: Thomas Blunsum
        Register Type: Parish Register

        James is a lead merchant DECEASED
        Harriet a witness


        London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
        Name: Harriet Yates
        Spouse Name: Joseph Ferris
        Record Type: Marriage
        Event Date: 29 May 1860
        Parish: Newington St Mary
        Borough: Southwark
        Father Name: James Edward Yates
        Spouse Father Name: Joseph Ferris
        Register Type: Parish Register

        James is a lead merchant

        Think this could be him

        YATES James Edward St. Pancras London 1851 Oct-Nov-Dec
        Last edited by Elaine; 22-05-13, 22:12.
        Elaine

        Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

        http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
        http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

        Comment


        • #5
          London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Edward Yates
          Name: Edward Yates
          Record Type: Baptism
          Baptism Date: 18 Nov 1813
          Father's Name: James Edward Yates
          Mother's Name: Ann Yates
          Parish or Poor Law Union: Shoreditch St Leonard
          Borough: Hackney
          Register Type: Parish Registers

          James a pewterer of Holywell Street

          ?Marriage
          London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
          Name: Matilda Augusta Hopkins
          Spouse Name: Edward Yates
          Record Type: Marriage
          Event Date: 8 Nov 1835
          Parish: Newington St Mary
          Borough: Southwark
          Register Type: Parish Register

          1841 Lead pipe maufacturer
          HO107; Piece: 693; Folio: 37; Page: 6
          Elaine

          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

          Comment


          • #6
            The children's I can find so far, info above on a******* with further links, started adding them as they weren't in the timeline

            There is Edward, Sophia, Frederick, David, Amelia, Charles
            Parents James Edward and Ann father a pewterer
            Last edited by Elaine; 22-05-13, 22:16.
            Elaine

            Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

            http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
            http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Have you come across this one

              1851 HO107 piece 1542 folio 438 page 11
              YATES, Mary servant 51 Wid born Romford
              Club Row, Saint Matthew Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets
              Elaine

              Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

              http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
              http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Elaine you are a star! i would never have found James Edward Yates on ancestry unless you had showed me as he is transcribed as Jas E Yater!!! but you have found him and the address is right too. I had searched Yat* etc even Yeates but no luck. you are brilliant. I had tracked his children but not found Louisa's marriage and I think you are right he was dead by 1853 . I had 1851 as a possible death for him but just found it odd that his daughter Harriet's marriage notice in 1860 said the late JEY as if he had died fairly recently not 9 years ago.
                #7 mary yates a widow as a servant, yes i had found that but discounted it because I thought if her husband died why didnt she stay with her son Henry? and not let him go off to Newcastle with her sister? originally i thought Mary died in childbirth or soon after and for some random reason her sister took Henry the nephew out of london .but if mary is a widow in the census in April 1851 then maybe the death of JEY in oct nov dec is not her husband.
                But you have helped me so very much with allthat information.
                Thank you again you are very kind.
                Angelina

                Comment


                • #9
                  Now Elaine has sorted me out with the 1841 census I have decided to believe James Edward did marry mary atley as they are living with 2 of his children by his first marriage, even tho i had the marriage certificate.!
                  But as a follow up:- James's parents were Richard and Sally Yates and Richard was also a pewterer. Richard's father was Lawrence Yates - quite a famous pewterer . Lawrence was born in 1714 and some of his work is around on auction sites.I have tracked Lawrence and his son Richard who was a bit less famous and then down to James Edward.
                  But as the lady from the Worshipful company of pewterers told me, the rise and fall of pewtering really mirrored this family. pewter was the 'poor man's silver' and as newer metal came into production people bought the cheaper steel? and other metal mixtures for plates and cutlery so demand for James edward's work fell. My London Yates aren't connected to the Birmingham Yates who were very famous. But Lawrence is the oldest ancestor i have so far and this is what he made :-
                  Angelina

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Glad it all slotted in to place just about, I f I remember right, there is also a death of a Mary Yates 1843...:p
                    Elaine

                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That would make sense- will go and hunt for it now. So if its Mary mother of Henry , she dies, father cant or wont cope and child Henry goes off with his auntie
                      thank you very very much.
                      Angelina

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Glad you found what you were looking for Angelina :D
                        Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

                        I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes I am really chuffed - couldnt havedone it without Elaine sorting me out
                          Angelina

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know this is a little late to be replying to this but I have only just joined the forum.
                            James Edward Yates was my 4 x GG.
                            James has been very hard to track with all his kids and wives. The only one I knew about was Anne Beard until fairly recently when I started proper researching.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I hope the information given in this thread helps you with your research. I havent got any more on the children of JEY and Anne as my main interest was on Henry by the second marriage.
                              good luck with your research.
                              Angelina

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Hi Angelina, the information was very helpful thank you as I knew nowt about Henry at all. I have followed down on several of the kids of James and Anne. I am descended from their son John. James Edward seems to me to have been abit of a wrong un with so many wives and kids on the go, bankrupting the business etc. As far as I can tell, only his son Edward became a pewterer. Henry gives me another avenue to explore.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Angelina, did you ever find Henry Yates' birth?

                                  I see that on the new GRO index, he's listed under 1842 births in Bethnal Green, with mother's maiden name given as Atley, so it looks as through they should have the certificate.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Mary- I got Henry's parents from his death certificate in 1879 Edinburgh naming James Edward Yates as father and Mary Atley/Yates as his mother and found his birth in 1842 in Bethnal Green so I didnt bother with the birth certificate. Its years since I tracked him back so thank you for finding him for me again.
                                    Angelina

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