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12 year German brick wall!

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  • 12 year German brick wall!

    After 12 years I have now exhausted every route I can think of to trace where my German great grandfather came from, and would welcome any suggestions.

    His name is Ernst Joseph Wieland, and the first record I have of him is on the 1881 census in Streatham (RG11-665-F69-P19) where he is a single lodger, age 23, bread baker, born Germany.

    Next is his marriage to Theresia Bowinkelmann in 1886. He is a 31 year old bachelor, a confectioner and his father is Carl Wieland, a carpenter. He was living in Clerkenwell.

    Then he is on the 1891 census in Mile End (RG11-665-F69-P19). He is married age 36, a baker born Germany. His wife is Theresia age 27 born Whitechapel, so I assume he came to England on his own and met her here. They have 2 boys and a girl.

    Now we have the 1901 census in Walthamstow (RG13-1633-F139-P26). He is again married, age 36 and a commission agent. Birthplace is again Germany. He is still with Theresia, and they now have 5 boys, Joseph age 9 being my grandfather. The girl from 1891 had died later that year.

    Then comes the 1911 census still in Walthamstow (RG14-09-6-90-09690_0051_03), still married and age 57 and he has reverted to baker confectioner, and birthplace Germany(Resident), nationality German. The 5 boys are still there, as is Theresia.

    Next is the death of Theresia in 1927, where their youngest son is the informant; she was buried in a public grave in St. Patricks RC Cemetery, Leytonstone.

    Then he died in 1932 aged 85. He was a Coffee House Manager and was living in Islington, although he died in Tooting Bec Hospital of cancer. I haven't found his burial, but I suspect he would too have been in a public grave, especially as his son and daughter-in-law (who was the informant) are also in public graves in St. Patricks, although he isn't there. Therefore there is unlikely to be a headstone to give me any more information.

    He is only listed on one electoral roll (1893) but I guess as a German national he was registered by mistake. His wife appeared on the electoral role at the same address as him on her death in 1927, and for several years prior with their son and daughter-in-law.

    I haven't found any likely candidates on any immigration or incoming passenger lists, and as I have no idea where in Germany he came from I don't know where to look next. Wieland is a fairly common name throughout northern Europe, which doesn't help. Going to Germany to look at records is unlikely to help without narrowing down the area.

    There are no likely candidates for his father in the UK, so I assume he came to the UK on his own, between the censuses of 1871 and 1881.

    Any idea where I can go next?

    In anticipation,
    Pete
    Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
    Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
    Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
    Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
    Devine in Ireland

  • #2


    could be father carl ??????
    Lorraine

    Comment


    • #3
      looks like someone else is looking too

      Wieland: I'm trying to trace the family history for Joseph ... Read more on Genealogy.com!
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you checked for naturalisation records at TNA?
        Elaine







        Comment


        • #5
          maybe these might help?



          you do know that you can order FH films at a local LDS centre don't you?
          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

          Comment


          • #6
            did he leave a will??
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for the replies folks.

              loltel: 1839 is probably too early for Carl to come to the UK, as Ernst was born in Germany circa 1855.

              Elaine: He was still a German national on the 1911 census, and I haven't found anything since. He isn't on any electoral roll, even though I have looked at addresses I know he lived at so he probably wasn't naturalised.

              Darksecretz: The other person looking is my cousin, and she gave up genealogy ages ago after only a year or so; these youngsters have no staying power! I haven't found a will, although one of his sons did leave one, but that was after Ernst's death. The search you flagged up I have already done, I even did it once with less criteria and got thousands back; I looked through them all, and no one leapt out at me. He was definately catholic, so the evangelist records can be ruled out, and he was almost always listed as Ernst Joseph so the others don't really fit, and the dates of birth are wrong as well.
              Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
              Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
              Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
              Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
              Devine in Ireland

              Comment


              • #8
                This group (Anglo German Family History Society) may be of interest if you haven't already tried them

                Jackie

                Comment


                • #9
                  bear in mind in germany, families could be whatever religion their employer was. i have a german evangelical family (they were almost like puritans in their beliefs), 2 of the children were baptised in the catholic church in the neighbouring town.

                  i see theresia was of german descent? where did her family come from? it's possible he came from near her family.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What are names of the witnesses on the marriage certificate? are they likely to be relatives?

                    What about the Aliens Register during WW1 - could that give more details is he was listed? A lot of Germans were imprisoned during the war so there may be some prison records that might help.

                    Is there any organisation in Germany for Bakers- he may have served an apprenticeship and be registered somewhere.

                    What about the same for carpenters - maybe father listed.

                    Margaret

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My g-grandfather was born in Germany in the 1850s; the family story was that he left to avoid being drafted into the Prussian army (the Franco-Prussian war started 1870).

                      Perhaps something similar persuaded your man to move to England, which might help narrow down where he came from?
                      Last edited by Lindsay; 05-03-13, 13:32.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Night Owl: I have looked at that site and Wieland doesn't come up in any searches. I have considered joining and maybe get some help that way; I do have a lot of information to share with them on a lot of German families, as all 4 of my paternal great grandparents were of German ancestry, although they were all born here, and the other 3 branches I have managed to trace back a few generations.

                        kylejustin: good point about the religion, I'll look more closely at the evangelical records. Theresia was born in Whitechapel, and her parents, although both born in Germany, married here, and as they came from different areas of Germany I assume they met here. I suppose it is possible that Ernst knew one or the other of them and that was why he came here, but that is a bit of a long shot, especially as they arrived here at least 10 years before him.

                        margaretmarch: The witnesses are not related as far as I know, but I can't find either of them on the previous or subsequent censuses, so they could have come over from Germany for the wedding, but again not on any passenger lists. The WW1 aliens register as far as I can tell hasn't survived. TNA have alien registration cards from 1918 onward, but he isn't there. The trade organisations are a possibility; I will chase that up.
                        Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
                        Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
                        Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
                        Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
                        Devine in Ireland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Lindsay: that is a good point. Along a similar line I have a letter written by a relative (the widow of a descendent of one of my great uncles) that mentions a family story that somewhere in the family someone was a personal bodyguard to the Kaiser, but they don't say which Kaiser, or what the relationship was. I can't follow it up as she died several years ago, before I knew of the existance of the letter. I suppose it could have been Ernst's brother but I haven't been able to confirm it.
                          Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
                          Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
                          Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
                          Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
                          Devine in Ireland

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Pete, are you 100% sure that Bowinkelmann is the correct surname? "Winkelmann" is a very common German surname in Lower Saxony. I have been resident here in Germany for over 30 years and I have never heard of the surname "Bowinkelmann".

                            Brian

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Definately Bowinkelmann.

                              I have her marriage and birth certificates, the birth certificates of several siblings, her parents marriage certificate and her aunt's marriage certificate, my 2x great grandfather arriving in London on a passenger list in 1858, my 2x great aunt and her daughter on passenger lists leaving for India and returning in 1926, as well as various relatives on every census from 1861 to 1911 (admittedly with various spellings, but still recognisable).

                              According to census entries the family originate from Westphalia, although I haven't traced any records for them there yet.
                              Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
                              Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
                              Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
                              Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
                              Devine in Ireland

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I got a good start using www etc familienanzeigen.genealogy.net. From there I opened the hits*Treffer and was presented with a lot of info re BMD for my family name and areas of where they came from. I also looked at Kew and got a list of the germany and polish jewish records datebase to see if I matched the area, waiting to go there to hunt down a good lead. I joined a german jewish group to rule in or out the family name origin, they helped a lot and made suggestions. I noticed whilst researching that some Universities out there hold the local records and of course the registry office (once the area is known is the place to contact but they may direct you to the nearest regional office ie Berlin. It is a lot of detective work and more to pay this end...I got info from newspaper reports and the police bulletins they issued out there. Anyway you may have done all this but good luck and dont give up. Carol
                                Carol

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  15 familytrees for Bowinkelmann ...the majority are in Warburg,Germany
                                  this man has 38 Bowinkelmann in his tree ...see if any look familiar
                                  View the genealogy made by Hubert Böhlen (hboehl) and find out the origins of his/her family.

                                  good luck
                                  allan
                                  ADDED...just looked at that tree...there is a THERISIA Bowinkelmann b 1844 parents are Carl Boweinkelman b 1818 and Anna Maria Elisabeth Biomeke
                                  Last edited by garstonite; 07-03-13, 07:25.
                                  Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
                                  oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
                                  adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
                                  merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
                                  coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thanks Garstonite.

                                    I have seen those trees and although they are almost certainly related as Bowinkelmann is such a rare name, I can't actually work out where the link is.

                                    My great grandmother Theresia was born in London in 1863 and her father is Wilhelm, who was born in Westphalia in 1838 but his father is Peter (from his marriage certificate, and his sister's marriage certificate confirms it). His sister (herself Theresia, but not the one you mention) was born in 1847, so I am looking for Peter being born around 1797 to 1818 (based on Theresia not being born after he was 50 and Wilhelm not being born before he was 20)

                                    I suspect that the Carl you mention is a brother of Peter (based on date of birth), but as I can't find Peter anywhere I can't make the link. I plan to go to Germany in the not too distant future in the hope that I can find church records for the area. The Bowinkelmanns you mention seem to be clustered in Germete, a very small villiage near Warburg, which is quite a small town itself.
                                    Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
                                    Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
                                    Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
                                    Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
                                    Devine in Ireland

                                    Comment

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