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  • Advice needed.

    Hi I am trying to trace my family tree and had got completely stuck! My Great Grandfather was born in Pelton Fell, 15/6/1908. He had two sisters Alice (b. 1896) and Jane (b. 1902). Their father was John McGowan (b. 1869/1868 in Scotland, possibly somewhere called Leaving Seat, Edinburgh) and their mother was Edith Turk (b. 1872 bedlington, Durham). I have found the Turk family but not the MacGowans. I am getting so frustrated and an going round in circles!

    The family seem to disappear for the 1901 census ... I know they must have lived lived around pelton fell or Chester le street in Durham but I can't find them!

    I tried ordering a marriage certificate for john mcgowan and edith turk (married 28/10/1891 at Pelton fell) which told me that that John MacGowan's father was also called John MacGowan (I think he may have been born in Ireland) and they were both Coal miners. It also showed the witness was called Martha McGowan but I don't know who she is.

    I am so stuck and I have been trying to research this for ages. I don't know if anyone knows how to help but any advice would be hugely appreciated. I can't find any useful records for Scotland and I am getting really stressed by it.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this,

    Suzanne

  • #2
    Welcome to FTF, Suzanne.

    If you have a look in the FTF Reference Library, you may find some useful ideas - especially in the Scottish bit.

    Scotlands People is the principal site for Scottish records, but there are other resources.

    Christine
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello Suzanne

      welcome to the forum, first things first, do you subscribe to any of the sites at all Ancestry/Findmypast? this will help as we can then post hyperlinks that you can click on to see results.

      have you looked to see if you can find them in the 1911 census at all?

      oh and a name for your grandfather would be a good start :smilee:
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #4
        ok for ref:

        1911 Census



        having a look now to see what else I can spot!..
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          1901 transcibed on ancestry as McCOWAN



          Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4699; Folio: 122; Page: 5.
          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

          Comment


          • #6
            1881: scotland


            this could be him and Martha shown here could possibly be the witness on his marriage cert..
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              That's amazing - I can't believe you found it! Especially when I forgot to tell you my grandfather's name was Albert!

              I registered with Ancestry on their top package and couldn't find the 1901 census anywhere.

              The on census with Martha McGowan, John McGowan was born in 1874. But on the marriage certificate I ordered it said he was 23 in 1891 so must have been born about 1868.

              I am not sure where to go from here.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Suzanne.Pritchard View Post
                That's amazing - I can't believe you found it! Especially when I forgot to tell you my grandfather's name was Albert!

                I registered with Ancestry on their top package and couldn't find the 1901 census anywhere.

                The on census with Martha McGowan, John McGowan was born in 1874. But on the marriage certificate I ordered it said he was 23 in 1891 so must have been born about 1868.

                I am not sure where to go from here.
                sorry Suzanne I got carried away..lol.. yes I'd agree he would/should have been born around 1867/68, I have often found that when their ages are taken for the census, on the form it says something like 'at at last birthday' so if they hadn't had a birthday by the time of the census, then their birthyear would be 'out'.

                I guess the next step is to find him in the census, I did spot a possible for the 1891, and you need to remember that if you are searching 'less is definitely more'

                so you could put John McG*** or Mac*** and a birthyear of +/- 2 yrs and a rough idea of where they were born. this would be all the info you need to use, I will have a look in a while, I am just getting the children ready for school. (and if you are really lucky, someone who subscribes to ScotlandsPeople might be able to find a birth for John)
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #9
                  I registered with Ancestry on their top package and couldn't find the 1901 census anywhere.
                  try looking under McCowan, you'll spot him soon enough.. :smilee:
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The only John McGowan (that I can find at the moment) born in Edinburgh that could be a candidate is a bit complicated - naturally!! It could all be wrong but I can't check any births, marriages or deaths as I have no sub for Scotlands People

                    On the 1871 census at 11 Hunters Close, New Greyfriars, Edinburgh
                    The head of the house is Bridget Defly born 1817 Ireland. I am pretty sure this is a bad transcribing (can't check image) and maybe it should be Duffy. Also in family
                    Catherine Defly 1854 B Edinburgh
                    Patrick Defly 1857 Edinburgh
                    Ann Defly 1859 Edinburgh
                    Mary McGowan born 1847 Ireland
                    John McGowan born 1868 Edinburgh
                    Mary McGowan born 1871 Edinburgh

                    In the 1881 census some of the family are at 8 Cowgate St Johns Edinburgh
                    Bridget Defly 1824 Rosscommen Ireland
                    Catherine Defly 1856 Grassmarket Edinburgh
                    Mary Kelly 1847 Rosscommen
                    Annie McGowen 1874 Grassmarket

                    John and Mary seem to have disappeared and Mary has had Annie, can't find John or Mary in 1881 but they could have died of course.

                    The name changes became clear when I found the family in 1861 in Cowgate, Edinburgh
                    William Duffie 1806 Ireland
                    Bridget Duffie 1817 Ireland
                    Roger Duffie 1844 "
                    Mary Duffie "
                    Mary Kelly 1847 Step-daughter 1847 Ireland
                    Catherine Kelly 1854 St Giles
                    Patrick Kelly 1857 " "
                    Ann Kelly 1859 " "

                    So did Mary Kelly marry a John McGowan or have 3 children with a John McGowan?
                    Birth of this John McGowan needs checking

                    As I say could all be wrong but births and deaths could be checked for elimination if nothing else

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There are no John McGowan births in Edinburgh in 1868 but there are two in 1867 (both born St George area Edinburgh). In 1869 only a William John born in Edinburgh (Canongate area of Edinburgh).
                      Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 11-01-13, 12:28.
                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you so much for trying to help ... It is really confusing. I have a wee bit more info but I don't know if it helps

                        John McGowan jr was in WW1 he was too old to fight so worked as an engineer in the Medical corp and was sent to Gallipoli. He survived the war and came home.

                        I can't believe I can't find Martha McGowan ... I totally feel like that's the key as I had never heard of her until I saw her name as witness on the marriage certificate. I don't think Martha is short for anything.



                        Darksecrets - I looked for McCowan and I still can't see him. I really sorry but could you give me an idiot proof hint??

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          if you click on the link above Suzanne it will take you directly to him :smilee:
                          Last edited by Darksecretz; 11-01-13, 17:01.
                          Julie
                          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                          .......I find dead people

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            just as a thought Suzanne, who were the other witness' on the marriage cert.. we have Martha, were there any others?

                            oh, I just had a thought, maybe Martha married 'in' to the McGowans.. so might not be directly connected,

                            do you have John Jrs service records at all?
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The other witness was W. Cummings (don't know who that is).
                              They wee married 28/10/1891 at the Wesleyan Chapel in Pelton fell.

                              I think I maybe just don't have enough information to find the right Family, I keep thinking Martha should but a sister. If she married into the family then why wasn't the brother the witness(?) Did you need a male and a female??

                              I don't have any service records ... I don't know how to get these either. I tried doing it through ancestry but nothing came up. My great grandfather Albert was in WW2 and I could find nothing for him either. Albert was a mechanic in the RAF he spent most of the war at Scampton in Lincoln I think.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Suzanne.Pritchard View Post
                                The other witness was W. Cummings (don't know who that is).
                                They wee married 28/10/1891 at the Wesleyan Chapel in Pelton fell.

                                I think I maybe just don't have enough information to find the right Family, I keep thinking Martha should but a sister. If she married into the family then why wasn't the brother the witness(?) Did you need a male and a female??

                                I don't have any service records ... I don't know how to get these either. I tried doing it through ancestry but nothing came up. My great grandfather Albert was in WW2 and I could find nothing for him either. Albert was a mechanic in the RAF he spent most of the war at Scampton in Lincoln I think.
                                anyone that was of an age to understand what they were witnessing could be a witness to a marriage, it didn't have to be Male & Female, the fact that they married in a Wesleyan chapel is also interesting, do you know if Edith was a non-conformist/Methodist or maybe it was John that was the methodist?

                                re the service records --some of the WWI are on ancestry but not all, and none as far as I am aware are any WWII records online. [I know that we do have some members that are more military savvy than I, so they may be able to assist you more easily]

                                going back to Martha, I believe that it is a name in its own right. [it just occurred to me that Martha could be his mother!]

                                if you know what your Gt Grandads service number was or what regiment he served in you should be able to apply for his service records direct from the Army.

                                link below from our Reference Library, if you scroll down to 'Service Records' it gives you info how to apply

                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Suzanne

                                  I passed this question on to a group of Scottish Genealogists and the consensus was that:

                                  You need to be aware that the term "Edinburgh" in history did not just refer to the City but could also refer to the county of "Edinburgh-shire" which we now know as Midlothian.

                                  "Leaving Seat" as written in the 1911 census almost certainly refers to Leavenseat/Levenseat, in West Calder. If you then search ScotlandsPeople for that district you will find a birth registration for John McGowan, b 11 August 1868 - Parents John (Ironstone miner) & Jane (Wilson) -GROS Ref 701/00 0226. It also gives the date/place of the parents marriage, as Scots birth records do, as 25 Sep 1866, in Johnstone (Renfrewshire I think ?)

                                  I don't do much Scottish research so don't currently have any ScotlandsPeople credits, but I'm sure a bit of research on that site will take your family further back.

                                  Antony
                                  Last edited by AntonyM; 11-01-13, 21:45.
                                  Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                                  Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by AntonyM View Post
                                    Suzanne

                                    I passed this question on to a group of Scottish Genealogists and the consensus was that:

                                    You need to be aware that the term "Edinburgh" in history did not just refer to the City but could also refer to the county of "Edinburgh-shire" which we now know as Midlothian.

                                    "Leaving Seat" as written in the 1911 census almost certainly refers to Leavenseat/Levenseat, in West Calder. If you then search ScotlandsPeople for that district you will find a birth registration for John McGowan, b 11 August 1868 - Parents John (Ironstone miner) & Jane (Wilson) -GROS Ref 701/00 0226. It also gives the date/place of their parents marriage, as Scots birth records do, as 25 Sep 1866, in Johnstone (Renfrewshire I think ?)

                                    I don't do much Scottish research so don't currently have any ScotlandsPeople credits, but I'm sure a bit of research on that site will take your family further back.

                                    Antony
                                    Oh that's just super Antony :smilee: am sure that Suzanne will be really chuffed with that info
                                    Julie
                                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                    .......I find dead people

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Oh that's amazing - thank you guys so so much!! I honestly was about to give up!! Thank you so much for taking the time to help I really appreciate it!!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Suzanne.Pritchard View Post
                                        Oh that's amazing - thank you guys so so much!! I honestly was about to give up!! Thank you so much for taking the time to help I really appreciate it!!
                                        nah, you don't have to give up, just throw any queries out to us, thats what we do and why we are here, to help each other and help find those that don't seem to want to be found!..

                                        never say never! :smilee:
                                        Julie
                                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                        .......I find dead people

                                        Comment

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