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1911 20 Children born 11 died

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  • 1911 20 Children born 11 died

    Is anybody game for finding some of the children? Think I have 17 so far and 8 had died by 1911



    Shall list what I have tomorrow if anybody is bored enough thanks

  • #2
    Val ............ did you try GRO Index????
    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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    • #3
      I have come to the conclusion with a few of mine that they included miscarriages in their total. There are just a few of mine, with large families that I have failed to find all the total on the GRO index with mmn that they claim. It is possible some were mistranscribed, I guess, although I have tried to be inventive with searches. Either that or they were very bad at maths!
      Anne

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      • #4
        yes Sylvia but maybe as Anne says they were miscarriages? she also only baptised one or two which is annoying and odd.

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        • #5
          I have a newspaper article about a distant twiglet who was interviewed about his life at the age of 80. He says

          "We had 20 or 21 children, I misremember exactly". As his recall was excellent for other things, I took it to mean that after a certain number of children you start to lose count!

          OC

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          • #6
            One of my ladies had at least 20 children, whom I managed to trace through village parish records. For one that I know of there was a burial record, but neither a corresponding baptism record nor birth and death registrations. I've always thought it was probably a child who lived for a matter of hours or even minutes?? So, it might be worth your while looking for bp & burial records as well as GRO registrations. Although a lot of your lot were London based, I think, so PR searches may be impractical :(

            Jay
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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            • #7
              were the ones you found in the same reg district - or all over? Have you searched on GRO by district? and mother name?
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

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              • #8
                Thanks OC, Carolyn and Janet this family are a nightmare, comes to that most of mine are.:(

                I have searched on the GRO and found some odd records, will explain later.
                Last edited by Guest; 11-03-19, 14:56. Reason: missed two replies

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                • #9
                  blast been double checking and seems I have the wrong birth reg for most, same names same years but wrong maiden name for mother ,in fact looks like they never registered them ? I know its the right children though.

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                  • #10
                    OH's gt gt grandparents definitely had 20 children over 28 years from 1832 to 1860, all lived to adulthood, all born after July 1 1837 were registered, all were baptised and the Parish Records are online.

                    However, OH's father, and the few other descendants from that family all had a saying ..........

                    "They had 20 children twice", and when everyone stopped gasping, they would laugh and add ........... "20 born, 1 died, and had another one to bring the number back to 20"

                    I've tried and tried to confirm this.

                    We have a large elaborate hand written "sampler" (don't know what to call it as it isn't embroidered) listing parents names and the 20 children in birth order. No other name on there.

                    No birth registration or baptism

                    It is possible that a baby was still-born, but as the family was religious, I strongly suspect that whoever helped deliver such a child would have said the child took 2 breaths and conducted a "home baptism" so that it could be buried in one of the family graves.

                    Difficulty ............ "20 children born twice, 1 died and they had another" is fine except there is not much time between number 18 19 or 20, unless mother pregnant almost immediately after losing the child. A miscarriage is the single possibility.

                    The one oddity is that the first 19 children all have only one forename, number 20 was given 3 names and one of those names was Vicesima. No-one else had such an unusual name either!

                    I didn't do Latin, someone told me that Vicesima meant 21 in the Bible, but I can only find definitions of it meaning 20.

                    I sometimes wonder whether they decided Vicesima would be the last one, and they gave her the 2 remaining girls names that they had waiting.

                    OH's father knew child number 19, who didn't die until about 1938, so he could have the story from her, and there are at least 2 other descendants of other siblings who have the same story ............. so what is the truth??


                    The parents died 6 weeks apart when Vicesima was about 6 years old, mother of heart failure and father of liver failure.
                    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                      blast been double checking and seems I have the wrong birth reg for most, same names same years but wrong maiden name for mother ,in fact looks like they never registered them ? I know its the right children though.
                      Oh don't say that Val - I have been searching every time I got a minute to spare today and I've been looking for Turner. Please tell me that's the right one? I have found loads. For instance, have you got the possible births and deaths of the twins Ernest and George, born June quarter 1887 1d 883 and the deaths September quarter 1887, all Camberwell?

                      If Turner is right I need to make a list in order to check possibilities, but there is also a Jim born June 1883 - died June 1885 aged 2 in Camberwell. There is also a possible Arthur born June 1884 died Dec 1885 aged 1 in Camberwell.

                      I have mentioned those four because they are all between census.

                      p.s. I have also got many of the children who lived and of those who died that are on the varios census.
                      Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 11-03-19, 18:40.
                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                      • #12
                        oh sorry Chrissie , should have said mothers maiden name should be Mason ,I am getting totally confused , I was in contact some time ago with the same family, and we are all positive about the children we do have , but, unless the GRO have made a mistake, or if the parents lied about the mothers maiden name, or even they never registered them ?? there is something very fishy going on.
                        For instance Lucy Georgina Knight ,we know she had one that died, then named another the same name, have her marriage cert but
                        These are the only two I can find


                        KNIGHT, LUCY GEORGINA BENNETTS
                        GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in SAINT MARY MAGDALEN BERMONDSEY SURREY Volume 01D Page 82
                        KNIGHT, LUCY GEORGINA TURNER
                        GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in SAINT MARY MAGDALEN BERMONDSEY SURREY Volume 01D Page 106

                        they are here in 1871 with Lucy



                        dont worry I'm sorry you wasted time I feel bad now, I should have made it clear.

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                        • #13
                          I was working backwards from the 1911 that you posted Val. I found those three births all under mmn Turner. Then I found a marriage in 1868 of a George Richard Knight to a possible Elizabeth Turner, and a death for a George Richard Knight in 1895. It all seemed to fit. I also found them in the various census and put two and two together.
                          Sorry, I seem to have got it all wrong.
                          Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 11-03-19, 20:26.
                          Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                          • #14
                            Please dont you be sorry, there must be two families along the same lines, I am going to start with them all over again.

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                            • #15
                              I have a sneaking suspicion that it MAY be the same family Val and somewhere along the line both of them have told porkies and changed their names slightly. Of course I could be completely wrong lol. It appears I was following the same family as you but there were likely birth regs for all of them (and several more who died) under mmn Turner.
                              Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 12-03-19, 11:01.
                              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                              • #16
                                I think that too, they had a lot to cover up.
                                I bit the dust and have started deleting all children, going to start again. thanks again.

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                                • #17
                                  just in case anybody wastes their time, I did mix up two families me and 18 other people on Ancestry who copied me :D

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                                  • #18
                                    Have you got them straight now, or do you need more help??
                                    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                                    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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                                    • #19
                                      Thats very nice of you Sylvia, I'd love help finding out what happened to a couple of the children, and when the parents died.
                                      Chrissie has been helping working out which children are theirs.
                                      If you dont mind ,am tired and dont want to put the wrong info on here, so will do it tomorrow.

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                                      • #20
                                        I'd be delighted to help ........ this week is a little chaotic, have daughter and grandson visiting (Spring Break), and so will be in and out, shorter time on here daily than usual!
                                        My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                                        Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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