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No birth certificate?

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    No birth certificate?

    I am trying to help a friend with their family tree, and they have tried to send for a birth certificate of a potential relative. We found the reference on Ancestry with the name, date, and references (Vol and page), but upon application he has had a message back telling him that the certificate cannot be found!? Can anyone explain under what circumstances this would occur?
    Stillbirth? Changes of name?
    We are perplexed and could really do with some clarity.
    Thank you.

    #2
    Either you made a mistake when ordering - everything you state on your order must be absolutely accurate, even one letter wrong will negate your order - or, most unusually, the birth certificate will have been suppressed for some reason, perhaps by order of a court. (I also have heard of suppression of fraudulent certifcates, but I think that is vanishingly rare).

    Is the person likely to be still living? If not, post the details here.

    OC

    Comment


      #3
      Has all the info been typed in correctly on the order form. If one letter or number is wrong they will dismiss it and not send a copy.

      I haven't ordered a birth cert for a long time but I once did this and found I had put a number wrong and they didn't send mine.

      I think still births go under another file and can't be viewed by us
      Lin

      Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

      Comment


        #4
        Snap OC.

        Took me longer to type!!
        Lin

        Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Mark Wild View Post
          I am trying to help a friend with their family tree, and they have tried to send for a birth certificate of a potential relative. We found the reference on Ancestry with the name, date, and references (Vol and page), but upon application he has had a message back telling him that the certificate cannot be found!? Can anyone explain under what circumstances this would occur?
          Stillbirth? Changes of name?
          We are perplexed and could really do with some clarity.
          Thank you.
          It might be a blessing in disguise if you ordered via Ancestry which charges a premium price. Far better to order via GRO. You will need to create an account, find the relevant birth details again (which will also give you the mother's maiden name which may help you rule the record in or out) and then order exactly as per the details given on GRO, even if you think there is a spelling error/mistranscription.

          Hopefully you ordered via GRO in which case, I'd concur with what other posters have said...

          Christine
          Last edited by Karamazov; 11-02-20, 16:45.
          Researching:
          HOEY
          (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

          Comment


            #6
            or you can order via the register district, your local authority maybe more forgiving and try and find it if indexed wrong, and they will have the original index.

            I have never done it but worked for a Council and knew registration services very well, and they were very good :) At one time they were slightly dearer than GRO, but only a pound or 2
            Carolyn
            http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

            Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
            Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

            Comment


              #7
              This is the link for the official government site, one you register you can search

              https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...ates/Login.asp

              Comment


                #8
                Hi all, thanks for replies.
                We/he ordered via local registry office.
                The circumstances are quite sensitive, but I shall try to be as discreet as I can.
                The person in question has seen an entry for the same date, town, surname and mothers maiden name. The first names are very relevant to the family also.
                But he does not know who they are, so we are assuming he maybe had a twin who possibly died at birth or not long after?
                Asking parents would cause too much upset he thinks, so he is just trying to satisfy himself who the person may be, and if he is one of a twin?
                There have been hints and whispers in the past that he is now realising are pertinent.
                All a bit vague I know but very mysterious.

                Comment


                  #9
                  If he was a twin I think the time he was born would be on his birth cert so they know who is the eldest.
                  Lin

                  Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If he was a twin then the actual time of his birth will be on his own birth certificate. Actual times are only put on English/Welsh birth certs in cases of multiple births. Also, the mysterious birth you are querying would be on the same page, same ref number as his own, unless for some reason the births were registered at two different times.

                    Have you checked mother's maiden name? Have you looked for a death?

                    OC

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Lol Lin, you were fastest finger first, this time!

                      I have just had a thort! Did you by any chance use the GRO reference when you ordered the cert? If so, that is useless to the local Register Office who use their own reference numbers, nothing to do with the GRO.

                      OC

                      Comment


                        #12
                        In answer to questions....
                        No death cert.
                        Different page and vol.
                        The references are relevant to the local authority.
                        It's as though the 'surviving' person has two birth registrations.
                        Different first names but same date, place and mother's maiden name.
                        He also says he was the only person to have been born by caesarean section when all other siblings were natural births (complications?)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Lin Fisher View Post
                          If he was a twin I think the time he was born would be on his birth cert so they know who is the eldest.
                          I only recently ordered my brother birth cert as his was worn out....long story but he is in US....so I ordered to send to pensions people for him...save it going back and forth.

                          and I have only just checked that his has the time on it...he is a twin...I never knew - makes sense.
                          Carolyn
                          http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

                          Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
                          Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                            #14
                            is he the first born? I notice....as I have just checked...my son is registered twice. Same birth date

                            The reason - I got married (to his father) after his birth and we were advised to re-register with married name.

                            so the registration is 18 months apart and 150 miles apart....that will blow my sons mind if checked, he knows, so no secret, but he won't remember
                            Carolyn
                            http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

                            Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
                            Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I know of two sisters who married two brothers, so the birth registrations of both sets of children have the same surname and also mother's maiden name. As both couples lived in the same place for a few years, they would all have come under the same registration district too.However, that scenario wouldn't lead to the situation where a birth certificate can't be found.

                              If you found the birth registration record on Ancestry, what data set was it in? There could have been a transcription error. Depending on how recent the birth was, I would look on both the GRO site and also Freereg and see what numbers are given and whether or not they correspond, and also spellings of names and places.

                              Jay
                              Janet in Yorkshire



                              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Can you maybe pm the details to one of us, see what can be found.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Another possibility is that the first names were changed. I believe you have a year (?) to do this, although it wouldn't generate a new registration.

                                  What year are we talking about?

                                  OC

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                    Another possibility is that the first names were changed. I believe you have a year (?) to do this, although it wouldn't generate a new registration.

                                    What year are we talking about?

                                    OC
                                    I think it would show with new reg dates as my son has - same date of birth, I am pretty sure the first one is then replaced so you can't see it.
                                    Last edited by cbcarolyn; 11-02-20, 23:11.
                                    Carolyn
                                    http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

                                    Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
                                    Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Cbcarolyn

                                      You didn't change your son's first names though, did you? In your case, the first certificate will becross referenced to the later one, with a note in the index "see Dec 93 " or whatever.

                                      OC

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        no didn't change his name, but on the face of it on the register it looks like I have registered him twice (2 years apart) just from Ancestry, all very odd the way it is showing. so presumably I could have changed his name and it would look similar?

                                        On Ancestry as it is only 25 years ago you can't see the image of the index.
                                        Carolyn
                                        http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

                                        Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
                                        Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                        Comment

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