Announcement

Collapse

Site Maintenance - Friday 21st February 2020

Please be aware FTF will be offline for maintenance on the evening of Friday 21st February 2020

For further details please follow the link below:

https://www.familytreeforum.com/show...-February-2020
See more
See less

How old is this young man?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    How old is this young man?

    Hi everyone, I'd like to pick your collective brains about the age of the young man in this photograph.



    He is my great uncle and I recently scanned the original photograph and was able to zoom in on the detail on the table.
    There are a selection of prizes and awards (for swimming - hence the outfit ;) ) and a bound copy of The Penny Pictorial Magazine. This led me to think that there might be an article about him printed in that magazine. The magazine was produced between 1899 and 1922 and the only remaining copies are at the Bodleian Library in Oxford. I have been in touch with them and will be going there in a couple of weeks time but I can only pre-order 6 years worth of the magazine. Initially I was going to order the last 6 years and work back from the most recent one. But on reflection, I think I need to look at some earlier ones. To get the best chance of hitting the right 6 year period I need to work out how old he was in the photo. He was born in 1892 so would have been 20 in 1912. Is he younger than that?

    Oxford is a long way from home for me and this trip is involving an overnight stay nearby so I really need to get it right first time if I can.

    Any suggestions gratefully received. Thank you.
    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

    #2
    My feeing is younger than 20, is it a photo or a photo turned into a postcard?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/50125734@N06/

    Joseph Goulson 1701-1780
    My sledging hammer lies declined, my bellows too have lost their wind
    My fire's extinct, my forge decay'd, and in the dust my vice is laid

    Comment


      #3
      Excuse my pun but I cant resist it, if he is young on this photo then he cant be old lol, seriously I would say 17 or younger 1905 to 1909.

      Robert

      Comment


        #4
        My immediate reaction was 16 ish. Definitely uner 20, his upper body and arms are quite slim and I would expect bigger arm muscles in a swimmer of many years.

        OC

        Comment


          #5
          Looking at the image of the magazine for a moment, none of the current offerings on eBay have the same style of cover with "The", "Penny", and "Pictorial Magazine" on different lines. Neither do they have the rounded rectangle around the words. Neither do they look like they could possibly stand up straight without support. I think this is a bound copy such as this: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...MygGegUIARDXAQ
          You can just about make out the double lines underneath and possibly the floral arrangement.
          I've zoomed in upon the section which should state which volume it is:

          temp.png

          I've underlined where I believe I can see "Vol" - and I think it's followed by the Roman numerals "XI"', or possibly "XII"?

          You could try emailing the sellers on Abebooks to see whether they're willing to take a look through the magazines for you: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-sear...gazine-volume/

          Hope you have some success!
          Kind regards,
          William
          Current focus of research: The Macleods of Lewis, especially those of the Point district.
          Of particular interest are Macleod families with men by the name of Torquil.
          Please see my user page for more detail...and pm me if we might share research!

          Comment


            #6
            Wulliam, thank you so much! That is brilliant! You have taken zooming in one step further than me and I think you have struck gold! I will go back to the library catalogues and see how Vol XI onwards relate to actual dates. I can definitely see an X there so that narrows it down to a range of 10 years.

            And I'm pleased that there is a general consensus that he is under 20 - that will also narrow down the date span, too.
            Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

            Comment


              #7
              What is his name? Perhaps you could further narrow down dates by doing a newspaper search re him and swimming prizes?

              Christine
              Researching:
              HOEY
              (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

              Comment


                #8
                Christine, I did try that but didn't have any luck. His name was Frederick Caesar but it's amazing how many 'wrong' references to Caesar come up when you do a search. I tried adding the word swim or swimming but that didn't help either. Maybe you might have better search skills than me and have more success if you want to have a look.
                Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                Comment


                  #9
                  This is beginning to hurt my brain!

                  Following one of Wulliam's links I found some volumes for sale where the description says



                  so Vol XIII and XIV only refer to a 6 month period in 1902 - when he was 10 years old.

                  This is the Bodiam Library listing http://solo.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/primo-...n_US&context=L

                  So, if I am interpreting correctly, where it says Books 602988098 13/14 (1902) the numbers 13/14 are the Volume numbers. So, assuming that he was at least 15 when that photo was taken, the volumes that I need to look at are numbers 31 onwards.

                  Could the volume number in the photo be XXX or could it be XL for 40 something which would be 1909-1911 when he was 17-19 years old?

                  Sorry if this is all a bit confusing but writing it down is helping me to make sense of it and if anyone has the time to check my thought process that would be great.
                  Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Can you get a higher resolution scan and then only upload the relevant part of the photo so that that section is as large as possible without being grainy?
                    Kind regards,
                    William
                    Current focus of research: The Macleods of Lewis, especially those of the Point district.
                    Of particular interest are Macleod families with men by the name of Torquil.
                    Please see my user page for more detail...and pm me if we might share research!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      where do you think he was based when he doing his swimming?
                      Carolyn
                      http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

                      Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
                      Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have a look at the newspapers and like you drawn a blank, I looked in Surrey as this is on your signature.

                        I did learn that there was a cricketer Julius Caesar from Godalming. And I did find an article that might be your Frederick about his parents being told he had died, but in fact he was wounded only.
                        Carolyn
                        http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

                        Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
                        Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I can try, Wulliam. Watch this space......

                          Carolyn , he might have been in west London at the time, Westminster, Pimlico, somewhere like that. Do you have a link to the article about Frederick that was injured? The cricket Julius was an earlier cousin I think.
                          Last edited by Gardengirl; 11-02-20, 18:26.
                          Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Bother! I have been working with the digital image for so long now that I can't remember where the original is. Have to do a bit more searching tomorrow.
                            Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                            Comment


                              #15
                              https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/...19170910%2f004

                              under Godalming casualties
                              Carolyn
                              http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

                              Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
                              Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Julius Caesar cricketer:
                                https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/...19180114%2f021

                                there are quite a few articles with him mentioned
                                Carolyn
                                http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

                                Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
                                Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Gardengirl View Post
                                  Christine, I did try that but didn't have any luck. His name was Frederick Caesar but it's amazing how many 'wrong' references to Caesar come up when you do a search. I tried adding the word swim or swimming but that didn't help either. Maybe you might have better search skills than me and have more success if you want to have a look.
                                  Sigh - I drew a blank on any swimming references too although found lots of cricket references to earlier Caesars plus references to a G Caesar who played centre half for the local Farncombe team in the early 1900s. This might well be his older brother George Caesar. Speaking of whom - have you come across this?

                                  https://www.surreyinthegreatwar.org.uk/person/110703

                                  There is some really detailed and interesting info online for the earlier cricketing Julius Caesar - some highs but also some tragedies from which it seems he never really recovered. Let me know if you want more on him.

                                  Christine
                                  Last edited by Karamazov; 11-02-20, 21:33.
                                  Researching:
                                  HOEY
                                  (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Thank you Carolyn and Christine. Unfortunately none of those are the same Frederick. There were quite a few Caesar families around the Farnham area in the 18th and 19th centuries and I guess they were probably all connected originally. The branch that my Frederick is from were around Tilford and Wrecclesham and have an interesting connection with cricket history. I have put an article on my weebly blog about them here https://ourpaststories.weebly.com

                                    Tomorrow I must find the original photograph.
                                    Main research interests.. CAESAR (Surrey and London), GOODALL (London), SKITTERALL, WOODWARD (Middlesex and London), BARBER (Canterbury, Kent) and CHEESEMAN (Kent).

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      can you find who else wore the same uniform around the same time?

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        So what were your Frederick's parents names?

                                        Christine
                                        Researching:
                                        HOEY
                                        (Co Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Co Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Co Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Co Tyrone and Strangford, Co Down)

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X