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Looking for Simmons in 1861

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    Looking for Simmons in 1861

    Hi all

    I'm looking for Simmons Butler on the 1861 census. He was baptised in 1834 in Chilton Foliat, Wiltshire: https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-b...=successSource.

    On the 1841 census with his parents and sisters: https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-b...rhSource=61188

    and in 1851: https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-b...rhSource=61188

    His first marriage to Sarah Palmer in 1853: https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-b...&rhSource=8860

    Sarah died several years later and he married my widowed ggg-grandmother Charlotte in St George Southwark in 1862. Shortly after they emigrated to Australia.

    I would love to locate him in 1861, but no luck so far. All and any help would be greatly appreciated.

    #2
    not had any luck so far sorry


    Val

    Comment


      #3
      I have looked too, I assume they had no children?
      Carolyn
      http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

      Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
      Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

      Comment


        #4
        Nor me.

        Think I see Sarah in 1861 in the City or was she deceased by then?

        Vera
        Last edited by vera2013; 11-09-19, 21:23.

        Comment


          #5
          Have you got Charlotte in 1861?
          Carolyn
          http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

          Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
          Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


            #6
            Think Charlotte (Adams) b 1826 m Thomas Piggott and with him in 1861. Thos d 1862. Need OP to confirm its the right Charlotte.

            Vera

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
              I have looked too, I assume they had no children?
              Haven't been able to find any children, no

              Thank you both for looking

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                Nor me.

                Think I see Sarah in 1861 in the City or was she deceased by then?

                Vera
                yes, deceased by then, thanks :)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                  Have you got Charlotte in 1861?
                  yes, with husband Thomas and daughter Sarah at Hedgerley Court, Thomas died in 1862.

                  Thanks :)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                    Think Charlotte (Adams) b 1826 m Thomas Piggott and with him in 1861. Thos d 1862. Need OP to confirm its the right Charlotte.

                    Vera
                    yes, exactly the right Charlotte. Thomas is my ggg-grandfather. Their "niece" Sarah is their daughter, born before they were married.

                    Thanks for looking :)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                      Nor me.

                      Think I see Sarah in 1861 in the City or was she deceased by then?

                      Vera
                      Now I'm wondering if I have the right death for Sarah Palmer Butler. :)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I found that one too, and as she in the 'country' I wondered if he would have been close by, rather than in London, was pondering how they would have met.
                        Carolyn
                        http://www.familytree.chatandthat.co.uk/home/

                        Researching:Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon
                        Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                          I found that one too, and as she in the 'country' I wondered if he would have been close by, rather than in London, was pondering how they would have met.
                          How Simmons and Charlotte met? :)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Short time span between death of Thomas D and marriage between Charlotte and Simmons.
                            Looks like couple moved from the farm before Thomas d' s death. Thomas D's Probate details gives an address in Uxbridge as place of death.
                            Looked to see who was there in 1861 but didn't see a Simmons B. Wonder if he was in the area.
                            Whilst looking around noted possible other child b 1850 to a Charlotte A. Do you have that one?

                            Can put up links but need to switch from the tablet

                            Vera
                            Last edited by vera2013; 12-09-19, 11:16.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                              Whilst looking around noted possible other child b 1850 to a Charlotte A. Do you have that one?

                              Can put up links but need to switch from the tablet

                              Vera
                              Ignore the 2nd child of a Charlotte Adams. Different person living close to Wycombe b 1824. In the 1841 with mother

                              Vera

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                                Short time span between death of Thomas D and marriage between Charlotte and Simmons.
                                Looks like couple moved from the farm before Thomas d' s death. Thomas D's Probate details gives an address in Uxbridge as place of death.
                                Looked to see who was there in 1861 but didn't see a Simmons B. Wonder if he was in the area.
                                Whilst looking around noted possible other child b 1850 to a Charlotte A. Do you have that one?

                                Can put up links but need to switch from the tablet

                                Vera
                                yes, very short time span between death of Thomas and marriage to Simmons. Between 1855 and 1858 Thomas and Charlotte and Sarah were in Victoria, Australia and then came back to the UK because of family dramas. Hedgerley Court Farm seems to have been sold to buy land in Moreton Bay, Qld and they had passage booked back to Australia when Thomas died of kidney disease. Charlotte came back to Australia, but with another hastily-acquired husband.

                                She was from Berkshire/Buckinghamshire and Thomas and Simmons were both born there as well. I have a theory but it's only that - Simmons' father, John Butler, had a successful carpentry firm, first in London and by 1861 back in Berkshire, at Hurst which is only about 20 miles from Hedgerley I think. On the 1861 census Thomas and Charlotte are at Hedgerley with a couple of carpenters, who I think would have been doing work to the house before it sold. I've always wondered if Simmons also worked on the house at some point, since he was a carpenter by trade too. Another reason I would really love to locate him on the 1861 census. :)

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  And am also now looking for a possible death for first wife Sarah Palmer as my original idea that she had died in St Luke doesn't seem to fit any more.

                                  Unless Simmons was a bigamist
                                  Last edited by thomasalbertedward; 12-09-19, 15:13.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I agree Simmons likely to have known Charlotte prior to Thomas D's death. Thomas D death was registered in the same quarter of 1862 as that of the marriage of Charlotte and Simmons.

                                    The death of a Sarah Butler aged 32 reg Dec q 1864 Holborn is a possible for the 1861 census record but cant see a burial record

                                    1861
                                    Sarah Butler aged 27 London City, Married, Mantle Maker, b London City
                                    Living with others at 2 Mar.....Court, St Botolph Without, Aldersgate
                                    One of the residents b Chatteris, Cambs. If I remember correctly one of the parents from Chatteris but maybe not connected

                                    Vera

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                                      I agree Simmons likely to have known Charlotte prior to Thomas D's death. Thomas D death was registered in the same quarter of 1862 as that of the marriage of Charlotte and Simmons.

                                      The death of a Sarah Butler aged 32 reg Dec q 1864 Holborn is a possible for the 1861 census record but cant see a burial record

                                      1861
                                      Sarah Butler aged 27 London City, Married, Mantle Maker, b London City
                                      Living with others at 2 Mar.....Court, St Botolph Without, Aldersgate
                                      One of the residents b Chatteris, Cambs. If I remember correctly one of the parents from Chatteris but maybe not connected

                                      Vera
                                      that is a great possibility- will investigate - thank you Vera

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I think the 1861 is a good possible for Sarah Palmer. In the household is a Margaret Hutchinson aged 70 a Widow b Chatteris (as was father Joseph Palmer). Ancestry is cross referencing Margaret with a Margaret Palmer who married a Robert Hutchinson. So possible Aunt



                                        Vera
                                        Last edited by vera2013; 12-09-19, 16:27.

                                        Comment

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