Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ethel Maud Fox b circa 1886

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Ethel Maud Fox b circa 1886

    Hi

    Having trouble with searches for my grandmother Ethel Maud Fox who was born around 1886. I cannot trace her in 1891, 1901, and 1911 census as I don't know her other family members. She married my grandfather Fergus Thompson but the only record I can find is a marriage in Wandsworth in 1916 which is at a time when they had already had 4 children. I only have a short birth certificate of my father as opposed to the long version (which would confirm the name of the mother as Fox or Thompson). Apart from paying out for more copy certificates, any suggestions?

    Steve

    #2
    I could do with some more info. All you have preferably.

    Comment


      #3
      Welcome to Family Tree Forum Steve.
      As Webwiz says the more info you can give us the better. How sure are you that Ethel's maiden name was Fox? Is this from family story or a certificate - not from your father's birth cert if you only have the short one. Am I right that the children born before the marriage you found were registered in Fulham district, I see one was named Fergus and the district is so close to Wandsworth that the marriage looks right. I really think, though I understand your reluctance to purchase certificates, that your father's full birth certificate, and then that marriage certificate for 1916 are wise investments, as without them you could go off on completely the wrong track right at the start of your tree. The marriage cert should give Fergus' and Ethel's fathers names and occupations, and ages for Fergus and Ethel to help find them in census returns.
      Judith passed away in October 2018

      Comment


        #4
        If you do decide to purchase certificates do use the official GRO site, http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ce...es/default.asp
        Judith passed away in October 2018

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Steve and welcome to FTF:)
          Do you have any idea when and where your grandparents died please?
          Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

          Comment


            #6
            Can you find your grandfather in 1911? When was he born?
            One thing which might make it difficult to find Ethel Maud is that she may have been married before. Are you sure the children born before 1916 are hers?
            I agree it is vital that you get your father's birth certificate! It would tell you if she had a previous married name as well as her maiden name.
            I just checked with FreeBMD and there are a number of men with the surname Fox who married an Ethel M. It would just be a guess to pick one.
            Anne
            Last edited by Anne in Carlisle; 14-01-15, 21:31.

            Comment


              #7
              According to his Army Service Record on Ancestry, he married Ethel Maud Fox, spinster 31 May 1911 Wandsworth. The dates of birth of 4 children are listed and checking the BMD records all have mother's maiden name Fox (although the first one is a year out - says 1912, should be 1911). The 1916 marriage was registered in Q2, so I'm guessing he has subtracted 5 year from the real date of marriage on his service record. Shame it's not a pension record as the dates are normally verified by the army on them. Given his unusual name, the most logical explanation is they lived as husband and wife and had 4 children before marrying. There might be a reason for that, but it could be difficult to discover.

              You grandfather is single and with his mother on the 1911 census.
              Rick

              Comment


                #8
                I see Fergus' army record is on Ancestry, where his children and wife are listed, and those children's births appear on the GRO index with mother's maiden name Fox. Even so those certificates are important to confirm names, and especially the marriage certificate for father's names.
                Judith passed away in October 2018

                Comment


                  #9
                  Fergus is in North West Fulham in 1911. There an Ethel Maud Fox born 1886 London in the same area. She is a domestic cook.
                  Rick

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Looking closer at the image, it says she was born Forest Gate. In 1901, she is niece to William & Mary Shearman.
                    Rick

                    Comment


                      #11
                      In 1891 she is with Henry & Harriet Fox. Confusingly, looking for their eldest daughter Amy in 1881, I found her with parents Charles & Harriett Fox. But Charles James Fox married Harriet Ann Shearman in 1876.
                      Rick

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ethel Maud Fox

                        Originally posted by webwiz View Post
                        I could do with some more info. All you have preferably.
                        Wow, what a great response. Thank you.

                        Hopefully the following answers some of the questions raised.

                        Fergus Thompson, my grandfather, was born on the 15th January 1888, in Holmwood, Surrey. He died on 3rd May 1969 in Maidenhead. I have traced his ancestors back to James Thompson born in 1805. Fergus (b1888) was the son of Fergus (b 1862) who, incidentally, is missing from the 1911 census where the rest of the family lived at 17 Claxton Grove, Fulham. My father, Alexander Thompson b 10/12/1915 in Fulham, confirmed his mothers maiden name as Fox before he died in 1999. Ethel died on 30th June 1966 in Hounslow aged 80. There appears to be quite a few Ethel Maud or Maud Ethel or just plain Ethel Fox in London around the time of her birth.
                        I've seen the first world war enlistment form showing the marriage of Fergus and Ethel as 1911, 5 years before the only marriage record I can find. The Fergus child quoted on the enlistment form died as a toddler.
                        NB Fergus (b 1862), missing on the 1911 census, remarried in 1930, a year after the death of his first wife (mother of Fergus (b1888).
                        From conversations with my father before he died, I have no reason to believe that Ethel Maud Fox is not my grandmother.

                        Thank you all again.

                        Steve

                        PS Too many Fergus Thompsons!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I guess you have noticed that they have transcribed the middle initial wrongly

                          NAME: Ethel N Fox
                          SPOUSE SURNAME: Thompson
                          DATE OF REGISTRATION: Apr-May-Jun 1916
                          REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Wandsworth
                          INFERRED COUNTY: Surrey
                          VOLUME NUMBER: 1d
                          PAGE NUMBER: 1456

                          it wasn't uncommon for some couples to live as though they were married and marry later on, without purchasing the cert it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack i'm afraid. I know it seems a waste when you know the details, but some of our members have fell foul to this as they 'know' the details so didn't feel the cert was worthwhile.

                          re the transcription error it might be worthwhile contacting the GRO and asking their advice on how to order the cert [as they might not issue the cert if you have a wrong initial]

                          once you have the cert and are armed with the information then we can help narrow things down for you. oh, and welcome to our forum :smilee:
                          Julie
                          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I bought a copy of the marriage certificate which gives Ethel's father as Charles Fox (deceased).

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by sthompson View Post
                              I bought a copy of the marriage certificate which gives Ethel's father as Charles Fox (deceased).
                              does it give an occupation for Charles at all?? and who were the witness' as well please [are they names that you recognise?]
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                does it give an occupation for Charles at all?? and who were the witness' as well please [are they names that you recognise?]
                                Charles was a Licenced Victualler. There is no occupation for Ethel so I assume she was looking after the 4 children. The witness signatures look like H Beecroft and E Sacker neither of which are familiar. Ethel is confirmed as aged 30 and a spinster. Ethel and Fergus are both at 5 Norroy Road, Putney.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by sthompson View Post
                                  Charles was a Licenced Victualler. There is no occupation for Ethel so I assume she was looking after the 4 children. The witness signatures look like H Beecroft and E Sacker neither of which are familiar. Ethel is confirmed as aged 30 and a spinster. Ethel and Fergus are both at 5 Norroy Road, Putney.
                                  That matches the 1891 occupation of the mysterious Charles/Henry Fox I found in my earlier posts.
                                  Rick

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by sthompson View Post
                                    NB Fergus (b 1862), missing on the 1911 census, remarried in 1930, a year after the death of his first wife (mother of Fergus (b1888).
                                    Fergus in 1911 - living with another woman as man & wife and with three children by her......http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/23...nSearchResults
                                    Rick

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      If you look at the marriage in Putney of Jessie Adele Fox (one of the other daughters of Charles/Henry).......http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/16...nSearchResults

                                      Father is Charles James Fox, licenced victualler, deceased. Ethel Maud Fox is a witness, as is Albert Shearman Fox. So Ethel is the daughter of Charles James Fox and Harriet Ann Shearman.
                                      Rick

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X