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    Opinions required please - which Death ?

    Afternoon all !

    One of my GGG Grandmothers married 3 times - and I'm down from her 3rd marriage (so lucky to be here as me !!! ).

    Anyway, I'm keen to order up the Death cert of her 2nd husband - but there are two options - can I please have some thoughts as to which is more likely ?!?

    Details :-

    Mary Ann Rooney (aged 23) & Richard Fagg (aged 34) in Brompton - Kent - they married on 16th March 1864 - Brompton - The Parish Church.

    They had two sons - the first was William Edward Fagg - born A/M/J 1864 - Medway (Kent). The second one Joseph Richard Fagg - born 14th May 1866 - Farnham.

    Now on the 11th July 1866 - Mary Ann Fagg married Joseph Jackson (he was also in the Army !) - at Farnham.

    There are two possibles on the Death of Richard Fagg :-

    1) O/N/D 1865 - Dover

    2) J/F/M 1866 - Portsea (aged 36)

    I have the 2nd son's (Joseph Richard Fagg) Birth cert - no mention of his Deceased father.

    So which Death shall I go for ? Both have merits of sorts. The first place Dover is in Kent and probably used by the army as a departure point. The second option matches his age.

    Now include the info that she married at Farnham for her third marriage - I'm thinking it's the first option.

    Please advise and then I'll order up the cert ! :) Which would you go for and why ???

    Thanks

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon in Bucks; 22-12-07, 23:34. Reason: Cert now arrived

    #2
    Hi Simon, like you I would be inclined towards the first one in Dover. I know they often married quite soon after the death of a previous spouse but I think it would be after a decent period of mourning, at least 3 mths!

    Fingers crossed you pick the right one, I always have this problem as my main surname is Barker & there are tons of em!:D
    Vivienne passed away July 2013

    Comment


      #3
      Mmm.

      Mary Ann has baby named Joseph and less than 2 months later marries a man called Joseph? I'd be a bit suspicious about that, personally. Is there a father actually named on Joseph Fagg's birth cert?
      ~ with love from Little Nell~
      Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
        Mmm.

        Mary Ann has baby named Joseph and less than 2 months later marries a man called Joseph? I'd be a bit suspicious about that, personally. Is there a father actually named on Joseph Fagg's birth cert?
        Yes here are the details. Joseph Richard Fagg - born Aldershot 14th May 1866 (registered 21st May Farnham) - although the Mother has stated that she resides in Aldershot. The Father is stated as Richard Fagg - but there is no deceased after his name.

        Has anyone ever had a Birth Cert where the Father is shown as deceased ?

        Comment


          #5
          IF - big if - Joseph's father was really someone else (though the fact he is named Richard as well seems to mitigate this) then mother may have just given her deceased husband's name when asked and not mentioned he was dead, in case the registrar started asking when he died.

          On the other hand, getting married 2 months after having another man's child, whilst not impossible, does seem a bit quick to me!
          ~ with love from Little Nell~
          Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

          Comment


            #6
            Farnham registration district included Aldershot until 1934 when Aldershot reg district was created.

            Of course its possible Mary Ann and children were in barracks and husband died whilst travelling elsewhere with the army.
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

            Comment


              #7
              1865 Dover death
              There's a Richard Fagg age 61 on 1861 census living in Dover, so that may help rule out first death.
              The one that died 1st q 1866 in Portsea would have been around to father Mary Ann's child. But she clearly felt the need of a male protector/provider pretty soon after his death and birth of their child.
              ~ with love from Little Nell~
              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                1865 Dover death
                There's a Richard Fagg age 61 on 1861 census living in Dover, so that may help rule out first death.
                The one that died 1st q 1866 in Portsea would have been around to father Mary Ann's child. But she clearly felt the need of a male protector/provider pretty soon after his death and birth of their child.
                So you think the 2nd one is the right one to get ?

                Just to add some more info.............a few years down the line..................Mary Ann and her 3rd husband ended up in Portsmouth, after going round the Med where they had a son at Malta (my GG Grandfather), and his younger brother in Gibralter.
                Last edited by Simon in Bucks; 09-12-07, 16:08.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Simon

                  Have you got any checking points you could add - his army number, rough age?
                  ~ with love from Little Nell~
                  Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                    Simon

                    Have you got any checking points you could add - his army number, rough age?
                    Well, going on the marriage cert - Richard Fagg was 34 in 1864. And he was a Butcher - probably worked in the army in that role.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      SO what do we think people ???

                      I want to place an order tonight.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Please give me your opinions.........................

                        Please, please, please..............

                        I'll order tonight at 9.30pm. Thats in just over an hours time.

                        Thanks

                        Simon

                        ***I'll order it this weekend***
                        Last edited by Simon in Bucks; 09-12-07, 22:02.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Mavis
                          Dust is a noun, never a verb;)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Nice one ! :) I'll leave this one a few more days and see what people think.

                            In the meantime, I'll order up Mary Ann's Birth cert and also her father's Death cert.

                            Keep those opinions coming.

                            Thanks

                            Simon

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Simon

                              Sorry not to be more helpful, but I think you won't know till you've got the cert - see my James Robins post to see how difficult it is!
                              ~ with love from Little Nell~
                              Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Little Nell View Post
                                Simon

                                Sorry not to be more helpful, but I think you won't know till you've got the cert - see my James Robins post to see how difficult it is!

                                I'm going to go for the Portsea one ! Bet it'll be the wrong one after all this.

                                Reasons :-

                                1) There is a definite Army match on this - and I'm guessing that Portsmouth was a massive departure point for any army.

                                2) Age matches

                                3) Little Nell mentioned that there was a 60+ year old Richard Fagg living in Dover on the Census records of 1861

                                I will update everyone and tell you what I got - right or wrong ? Only one way to find out.

                                Thanks

                                Simon

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Simon in Bucks View Post
                                  Only one way to find out.

                                  You could try the local office. Then it shouldn't cost you if it's the wrong man!

                                  *tosses coin*

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
                                    You could try the local office. Then it shouldn't cost you if it's the wrong man!

                                    *tosses coin*
                                    I've ordered it now ! (will use the tip for future - good idea that)

                                    At a very wild guess here...............I wonder if an accident was cause of Death ? Hence the very short time between the wife having his 'child' and re-marrying.

                                    I'll get the cert next week - according to the GRO site.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Hmmm, I smell a bit of a rat here.

                                      What an extremely noble man to marry a woman and take on another man's child with such haste.

                                      And if he was THAT noble, why not marry her before the birth and make her life easier? He sounds more like a reluctant father, to me!

                                      Be interesting to see who was the informant of death.

                                      OC

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                        Hmmm, I smell a bit of a rat here.

                                        What an extremely noble man to marry a woman and take on another man's child with such haste.

                                        And if he was THAT noble, why not marry her before the birth and make her life easier? He sounds more like a reluctant father, to me!

                                        Be interesting to see who was the informant of death.

                                        OC
                                        Ooooooh, you make it much more interesting ! I'll definately have to show all the details when I get the certificate. I've always thought that she had an 'interesting' life...............................

                                        Comment

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