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    Confusion over birth date and parentage.

    Hello all.

    I hope this is in the correct sub-forum. Apologies if it isn't.
    I had been recommended by a recently discovered cousin about this site.

    I have been having some trouble with locating a birth date and parentage for my 2xgreat-grandfather, George Clark. I know from his marriage certificate to his wife, Ellen Louisa Hemmings, that his father is put down as William Clark. It seems William's occupation is either a sailor or tailor. Seeing as George is a sailor, I'd presume that his father was a sailor also.

    That is all I know of George's father.

    What I know of George Clark is only marginally better.

    The marriage took place on 28th Oct 1883 in Bristol. George and Ellen are aged 23. George must have been born roughly 1860. Ellen seems to have put the wrong age down, though, as she was christened 8th May 1859 in Bristol.

    George has his birth place down on the England census of 1891 and 1901 as Bristol, Glos. I can find his wife and family on the 1911 England census, but George is not noted down in the household. I thought he may have been away at sea, but searches for him have not shown him anywhere. I did find him (I think) on the Scottish census of 1871 on the ship 'The Lark' in the Thurso river.

    George died in Bristol aged 83 on 19th November 1943 and is buried with his three daughters in Canford cemetery, Bristol. I had tried to locate the death date for his wife Ellen, too, in the hope of finding some new information, but she is just as elusive in death as George was in birth.

    I contacted the Bristol offices to request a birth certificate for George from the year 1859/60 with a father named William who is a t/sailor, but they replied with a short response detailing that there are many George Clarks with fathers named William. They wouldn't respond as to whether any were t/sailors.

    George's son, Albert George Clark (who married Alice Davis) is exactly the same in concerns to his death. There doesn't seem to be any record of Albert George either. Father like son :D

    I was wondering if anyone could help spark some ideas or pointing towards an avenue with which to go down? I use ancestry, findmypast, familysearch and various free bmd websites.

    #2
    Welcome to the forum.

    Is this the correct 1891 census? (George and Ellen, with children Nellie and Albert)
    http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...049223&recoff=
    RG12; Piece: 1971; Folio: 13; Page: 20;

    If it is then I would say George's occupation is Tailor, not sailor. Compare the T with the T in Thomas a few lines up, and also compare it with the S in Sarah towards the bottom of the page.
    Elaine







    Comment


      #3
      Do the witnesses on the marriage certificate help at all - ? family members ?
      Elaine







      Comment


        #4
        Is this the 1901 census .. definitely Sailor on this one!!
        http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...026129&recoff=
        Elaine







        Comment


          #5
          I don't think this helps in any way, but I wonder if this is your George Clark - WW1 Merchant Seamen Medal Card
          http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...&resultcount=1
          Elaine







          Comment


            #6
            it might also be that you won't find a b/cert for him [George] it might be that he was only ever baptised, so therefore no cert. For his sons death cert, he could be under Albert George, or Albert/Bert/George..

            same as for Ellen, I suppose you have looked under Eleanor/Nelly/Helen? in the index. do you think there is a possibility that she re-married??
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            Comment


              #7
              You say you think you have George in 1871 in Scotland. Do you have the details, please? One that seems likely to me is 10 years old, born Bristol, at the Boys Industrial School in St Michael, Bristol (no help with his family, of course).

              http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...c=&pid=1029091

              scuda
              Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                Welcome to the forum.

                Is this the correct 1891 census? (George and Ellen, with children Nellie and Albert)
                http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...049223&recoff=
                RG12; Piece: 1971; Folio: 13; Page: 20;

                If it is then I would say George's occupation is Tailor, not sailor. Compare the T with the T in Thomas a few lines up, and also compare it with the S in Sarah towards the bottom of the page.
                Hello and thanks for the welcome.

                It is so alike to a 't', but we are very certain he was a sailor most if not all his life. With that said, his father William could have had him as an apprentice to where he went on to become a sailor?

                Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                Do the witnesses on the marriage certificate help at all - ? family members ?
                Both witnesses are from Ellen's side of the family. Her mother and brother.

                Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                Is this the 1901 census .. definitely Sailor on this one!!
                http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...026129&recoff=
                Yes, that's the 1901 census I mentioned. Looks more distinct there.

                Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                I don't think this helps in any way, but I wonder if this is your George Clark - WW1 Merchant Seamen Medal Card
                http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...&resultcount=1
                It would certainly make sense that he would have served during WWI. Great find if it is him. Thanks Elaine.

                Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                it might also be that you won't find a b/cert for him [George] it might be that he was only ever baptised, so therefore no cert. For his sons death cert, he could be under Albert George, or Albert/Bert/George..

                same as for Ellen, I suppose you have looked under Eleanor/Nelly/Helen? in the index. do you think there is a possibility that she re-married??
                I thought everyone had a birth certificate. Was this a normal practice then?

                I didn't think to look under a nickname or shortened name before. I had looked for Ellen under Nelly, but not Eleanor. The closest I have come to finding Ellen was a probate calender entry in 1927. The Ellen Clark even had a husband named George.

                zWOrc.jpg

                http://i.imgur.com/zWOrc.jpg

                The William Frederick Clark was interesting. I wonder who he could be, if this is the right Ellen?

                Originally posted by scuda View Post
                You say you think you have George in 1871 in Scotland. Do you have the details, please? One that seems likely to me is 10 years old, born Bristol, at the Boys Industrial School in St Michael, Bristol (no help with his family, of course).

                http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...c=&pid=1029091

                scuda
                Here's the Scottish census.

                http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...26pgPLz0q3dpid

                That scholar one reminded me of the other result I got. I found a George H Clark as a boarder.

                http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...ki1871&indiv=1

                Interestingly, there is another Clark called Albert of the same age. Could they be brothers?

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                  #9
                  It was not compulsory to register births until 1875 so many people didn't bother as it did cost money and no doubt they thought - what for?

                  Margaret

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                    #10
                    Ah, that Scottish census is 1881, not 1871 - that seems quite likely, then.

                    scuda
                    Pitman / Pittman in North Glos (Didbrook, Prestbury, Longhope, Tewkesbury, Stow, Cirencester, etc), London & Australia

                    Comment


                      #11
                      An update to the whole conundrum.

                      I finally found the death date for Ellen Clark. Ellen died in 29th April 1914 in Bristol. George was present at the death and is mentioned to be a Mariner Merchant Seaman.

                      I attempted to find George's birth date via the GRO, but the only record they had was of a George Clark born to a William Clark and Diana Mills in Yate, Gloucestershire. I know these to not be the correct parents as the censuses do not show William becoming a T/Sailor, but if someone could check to confirm this, I'd be grateful.

                      I'm really stuck as to what to do next.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        there are two george clark's born in bristol between 1855-1862:

                        george henry clark, sep 1860 and george henry clark, sep 1861.

                        according to freebmd, there were no george clarke's in those dates. so maybe his birth did not reach the GRO, or it was never registered, or he was not born in bristol, and was either told he was or he remembered living there as a child. have you looked up bristol parish registers?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          there are bristol records on familysearch, your yates birth is on there as well as this:

                          george clark ch.24 aug 1862, st phillip and jacob, bristol. parents: william henry and harriett clark.

                          parents appear to be: william henry clark and harriett lamb (fathers: john clark and samuel lamb) married 10 oct 1841, at st michael the archangel on the mount, bristol.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            600.jpg

                            This is where Capt. George Clark is buried alongside his daughters; Ellen, Ruby and Elsie Clark.

                            is this him, Canford Cemetary

                            sorry just done a search and I think this is the other george clark that married florence,
                            I will keep seaching
                            Last edited by julie1979; 26-07-12, 07:06. Reason: wrong person

                            Comment


                              #15
                              http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...937513&recoff=
                              found this death for albert g clark

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                there are two george clark's born in bristol between 1855-1862:

                                george henry clark, sep 1860 and george henry clark, sep 1861.

                                according to freebmd, there were no george clarke's in those dates. so maybe his birth did not reach the GRO, or it was never registered, or he was not born in bristol, and was either told he was or he remembered living there as a child. have you looked up bristol parish registers?
                                I had thought the records had been transcribed onto familysearch. I have to admit that I wouldn't know how to go around to viewing the parish records. What is the procedure to follow exactly?

                                Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                there are bristol records on familysearch, your yates birth is on there as well as this:

                                george clark ch.24 aug 1862, st phillip and jacob, bristol. parents: william henry and harriett clark.

                                parents appear to be: william henry clark and harriett lamb (fathers: john clark and samuel lamb) married 10 oct 1841, at st michael the archangel on the mount, bristol.
                                Thanks for searching, but this George Clark was born in 1851, unless it has been transcribed incorrectly. I had a look on the censuses, but it seems this William isn't a T/Sailor either.

                                Originally posted by julie1979 View Post
                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]16434[/ATTACH]

                                This is where Capt. George Clark is buried alongside his daughters; Ellen, Ruby and Elsie Clark.

                                is this him, Canford Cemetary

                                sorry just done a search and I think this is the other george clark that married florence,
                                I will keep seaching
                                Thank you for searching, Julie, but that picture was the one I took after locating George in Canford. It's strange to think I used to go to that park as a child and never even knew he was buried there.

                                Originally posted by julie1979 View Post
                                http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...937513&recoff=
                                found this death for albert g clark
                                I forgot to mention it on the update, but Albert George Clark's death was in 28th Jan 1923, five years before his last child, or so we had thought. It seems Alice got pregnant out of wedlock and it was hidden from the rest of the family to this day.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  I was just looking over the censuses of George that I am aware of and came across something I think may be of some use. George has yet to be found on a 1911 census, but his family are all together on the 1911 census that I have found. Albert, George's son, was the person allocated the task of filling out the census form and he has placed down Ellen as aged 49 (born about 1862) and his mother has been married for 29 years, which makes the year of the wedding 1882 although the marriage certificate is dated 28th Oct 1883. Both Ellen and George are placed down aged 23.

                                  I understand that the amount of years put down on a census for the marriage could be a genuine mistake on the behalf of Albert, but the age of his mother could be significant.

                                  Comment

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