Announcement

Collapse

Site Maintenance - Friday 21st February 2020

Please be aware FTF will be offline for maintenance on the evening of Friday 21st February 2020

For further details please follow the link below:

https://www.familytreeforum.com/show...-February-2020
See more
See less

Surname origin help - Antipas MICLO/MICLOS/MICKLOE (Huguenot?)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Surname origin help - Antipas MICLO/MICLOS/MICKLOE (Huguenot?)

    Hello everyone,

    I've researched a great deal of my family history, and feel quite experienced, but my new research from the last couple of days is puzzling me a little! I wondered if anyone could chip in with any help with the above surname.

    We've long suspected Huguenot roots in our East End lines - and I've recently found a line using familysearch which pretty much confirms that! These people tended to be weavers, from the Threadneedle St/Stepney/Bethnal Green area, and surnames such as LEDOUX/BECARD/POSTEE are popping up. These sound very French in origin, but the one that is puzzling me in particular is MICLOS. It seems to be spelt variously as MICLO, MICLOS, MICKLOE, MICLOX, MEEKLOE as the years pass, I'm sure through Anglicising and mis-transcribing. I can't find anything on the origin of it though - does anyone know if it is perhaps a variation of a French name, and what area it might come from? Or something a little further flung?

    I've got a Pierre Miclos born 1694 Spitalfields, an Abraham Miclo born 1722 around Threadneedle St as well as lots of others. The most intriguing is (I think) my 9x great grandfather Antipas Miclos - what a great name! I had never heard of an Antipas before, but I believe it's a biblical name? He must have been born in the mid-late 1600s, I'm unsure where though - his name is from the birth record of his son Pierre.

    Any thoughts on the surnames (particularly Miclo) or on Antipas would be greatly appreciated! Thank you and apologies for the waffle!


    Catherine
    Last edited by goclimbbrancusi; 08-04-12, 12:59.

    #2
    sounds greek to me.

    Comment


      #3
      antipas is definently greek. miclos i would say so too. but some of the transcriptions could suggest french maybe. i would go with greek, but i hav not heard of greeks in london before!

      Comment


        #4
        St Antipas was an early Christian martyr and is mentioned in the book of Revelations.

        Wild thought - was Miclos originally Nicolaus? However, whatever it was originally, if you have found it as a Huguenot name, then that's what it is, a Huguenot surname.

        We have a member on here who has done a lot of Huguenot research and will probably have something more useful to say about all this.

        OC

        Comment


          #5
          Phonetically Miclo could be Micheleaux or something like that.

          Have you tried any of the French sites for BMDs? there are quite a few now especially from Normandy which I believe the main tranches of Huguenots came from.

          Margaret

          Comment


            #6
            Have a look here http://www.huguenotstreet.org/assets...e_surnames.pdf where I can see a name Micheaux.

            The best resource is here http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/

            Margaret

            Comment


              #7
              I originally thought it sounded quite Greek too Kyle! But after the discovery of St Antipas, (and also the not so wholesome soundingHerod Antipas!) I wasn't so sure - it seemed to fit in with the pattern ofother names I've been finding - lots of biblical references like Rachel, Benjamin, Joshua, Abraham, Jacob etc.. I presumed this was a trait of Huguenots but could be wrong?

              Thanks for your help with the links Margaret - what French BMD sites did you have in mind? That list of surnames is very interesting, and I can see some familiar ones on there. I'm not totally sure about the Micheaux - I know names got very bastardised over the years but the transcriptions I've seen all seem to suggest it was spoken with a hard 'c' - I could be barking up the wrong tree totally though!

              Did the Huguenots generally marry other Huguenots, or is there any evidence of marriage between other refugee groups atthat time (I'm presuming there were others)? Thanks for everyone's thoughts so far :) very interesting stuff!


              Catherine
              Last edited by goclimbbrancusi; 08-04-12, 17:56.

              Comment


                #8
                antipas is a greek name, and the original saint antipas was from pergammon, which was controlled by greece before the romans.

                margaret had a good explanation, ie micheleaux. normandy seems to be where many huguenot's originated from. richard may be able to help more?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hello Catherine

                  Interesting family. They are Huguenots, and the name was originally spelt 'Miclot' in France. They are from the town of Montdidier in Picardy, about 30 miles south of the city of Amiens, where a large Huguenot Conregation and Temple was based, but seem to have used the smaller Huguenot Temple at the village of Herly, which was a little nearer to them than Amiens, 20 miles to the west. Antipas and his brother Jacob appear to have fled first to Holland, where they settled for a while in Leiden, before crossing over to England around 1693. Their uncle Luc Sene had fled to London with his family in 1681 so they were joining relatives already well established there.

                  The parents of Antipas and Jacob were Charles Miclot and Madeleine Sene. Unfortunately the registers for the Herly Temple only survive from 1668-1675 & 1680-85, all the others have been lost, and though Jacob's baptisms is there (April 1670) Antipas' is not, so I suspect he was the older of the two brothers and born circa 1665/6.

                  Incidently how do they link to the Ledouxs? I am a decendant of the Ledoux family myself so would be interested to know.

                  Regards

                  Richard
                  Last edited by Richard; 09-04-12, 03:57.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Also, there is a record for an "Antypas James Michel" showing in the London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 collection ancestry. I don't currently have a sub so can't see what it relates to. If it's a burial for Antipas it might give his age and confirm his likely date of birth.
                    Last edited by Richard; 09-04-12, 03:50.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hello Richard,

                      It's difficult to believe I knew nothing about this family on Saturday morning! Thanks so much for your help, so interesting and it's amazing to have such detail on Antipas and Jacob's lives. Wonderful, I've never got back so far! I presume you've done a huge amount of Huguenot research? Did you have to journey to the actual places in France and the Netherlands to find all this out?

                      I must say that at the moment I have only used familysearch to find this tree...so I can't be sure it's completely foolproof research, but yes I do seem to have a Ledoux connection. As far as I can see, Antipas married Jeanne Becard, and their first child I think was a Pierre Miclo (b.1694 around Spitalfields). Pierre married Susanna Postee/Posty in 1719, and one of their sons was an Abraham Miclo (b.1722 and christened in Threadneedle St) - he would be my 7xgreat grandfather. Abraham I think married Marie Ledoux in 1742 in Stepney, and it's one of their daughters, Margaret Mickloe b.1756 around Bethnal Green who I am descended from. There seemed to be lots of potential Marie Ledoux on familysearch however, so I wasn't sure I could take her line any further? Perhaps we are very distant cousins Richard?! :)

                      I would love to see the 'Antypas James Michel' link too, but sadly I don't have an ancestry sub either - tried looking with my fmp subscription but can't see it on there. Perhaps someone with ancestry could do a quick search?

                      On a related note - my East London ancestors who married into this line include the Tisshaws. My uncle has long suspected this is a Huguenot name - and they were weavers too, from a similar area. My 3xgreat grandmother was Sussana/Susan Tisshaw b. 1845 Bethal Green, her parents Joseph and Caroline Tisshaw. Their name is so hard to find though, as it gets mis-transcribed and swapped about into various spellings of Tishaw/Fisshaw/Lishaw etc.! Have you ever heard of this surname Richard?

                      Thanks ever so much for your help!


                      Catherine

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi Catherine,

                        The Antypas record on ancestry is a burial.

                        Transcription says:

                        Antypas-James Michel
                        Burial date: Feb 1721
                        Parish St Mary Whitechapel
                        County: Middlesex

                        Looking at the image it looks like this burial was a child.
                        Last edited by Kelly; 09-04-12, 12:15.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          There is a baptism for the child above, transcription reads:

                          Antipas James Mitchel, baptism 19th June 1720, St Mary Whitechapel. Parents: Thomas and Mary.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hello Catherine

                            Glad to be able to help. I have done a fair bit of research into the Spitalfields community over the years, and have quite a few sources of information. As well as the excellent resources made available by the Huguenot Society of G.B & Ireland, there are also a lot of very helpful French websites online, in particular for the Picardy Protestants, Jean Paul Roelly's website Most of France's Archive Departmentals, their equivalent of County Record Offices, now have their resources online, and in many cases, where they have survived, this often includes the existent Protestant records. You do have to search through manually, there's no indexed database, but of course it's still a lot easier then travelling to France in person. I did double check through the Herly Temple registers and Antipas is definitely not contained there, though I can send you the original image of Jacob's entry if you send me a PM with your email address.

                            'Antipas' is certainly any unusual name amongst the Huguenots. There are a couple of others in London, so he wasn't unique, but unusual all the same. As you noticed they had a preference for the old testament names, particularly the patriarchs and prophets, but saints names in comparison were not so popular, as the veneration of the saints was one of the major areas Calvinists were in dispute with the Catholic church. I did at first think the same as you 'Herod Antipas' was the only one I was aware of, but could not ever imagine god fearing Calvinists christening a son after that highly dubious figure! I'm sure it must relate to the Greek saint of the same name, and I wonder then whether he had some special link with their home town or region. I had a similar thing with one of my Normandy families, a son that stuck out like a sore thumb amongst all the Isaacs, Jeans, Jacques, with the name 'Vigor' until I found out that St Vigor was the patron saint of Normandy. Perhaps Antipas had a similar standing in Picardy?

                            Here are the details of the children I could find baptised to Antipas and Jacob in London:

                            27 March 1694 at La Patente. Spitalfields: Pierre, son of Antipas Miclos and Jeanne Becard, natives of the city of Leide, in Holland; (Born 22nd March) Conducted by Minister Souchetat
                            Godfather: The child's father. Godmother: Judith Decard.

                            June 19th 1695 at Threandeedle Street, London: Judith, daughter of Antypas Miclo and Jeanne, his wife.
                            Godparents: Jacob Miclo and Judith Sene

                            January 10th 1697 at Threandeedle Street, London: Abraham, son of Antipas Miclo and Jeanne, his wife.
                            Godparents: the child's father & mother.

                            October 2nd 1698 at Threadneedle Street, London: Sara, daughter of Antipas Miclo and Jeanne, his wife, Silk Weaver in Crispin Street, Stepney Parish.
                            Godparents: Luc Sene & Sara Sene.

                            March 2nd 1701 at Threadneedle Street, London: Jeanne, daughter of Antipas Nicol (sic), weaver, and Jeanne, his wife, in Gray Eagle Street, Stepney Parish, Spitalfields Hamlet.
                            Godparents: Jean Bien, Jeanne Bourgeois.


                            December 15th 1695 at Threadneedle Street, London: Jonas, son of Jacob Miclos and Lizabelle, his wife.
                            Godparents. Luc Sene and Sara Sene.

                            March 10th 1702 at Threadneedle Street, London: Anne, daughter of Jacob Miclo, weaver, and Elizabeth, his wife in Frying Pan Ally, Stepney Parish, Spitalfields Hamlet. (Born 29 April 1702.)
                            Godparents. Jean and Anne Sene.

                            In addition there was at least one other child of Jacob, a son Charles born circa 1713, who entered La Providence, The French Charity Hospital London in March 1786, aged 73, and remained there until his death in July 1799. He described himself as "son of Jacob, who was a native of Amiens, Picardy, a refugee for cause of religion".

                            The family were likely always settled in Spitalfields by the way. Threadneedle Street in the city was the site of the original Strangers Church set up in the 1550's under Edward VI, for refugee Protestants, which later became used exclusively by the French and Walloon Protestants and was the focal point of their community East and West London, but they did not generally live in it's immediate vicinity.

                            Also in regard the marriages, I think it depends on two factors, the generation in question, but also the date. Certainly fresh refugees would usually have wanted their children to marry within their community, and within their creed (Calvinism), but the grandchildren were much less likely to do so. Generally this was the case 1680-1740, when Spitalfields existed to a certain extent as a French enclave, and French was still the spoken language in the street (there's evidence many of the first generation never learnt English at all), but at the latter date 1740-1780 when less Fresh refugees were coming and Spitalfields was more of a mixed community even the children of the first generation tended to marry outside the community out of sheer necessity. Of course there are exceptions to this rule, I have seen Frenchmen in the records, fresh off the boat so to speak, wooing and marrying native English ladies, and in contrast other families, usually the more successful weaving dynasties, marrying within the community and continuing to use the French church for a century and a half well into the 19th century. These were the elite who sent back money to France and helped re-establish the Calvinist faith and places of worship there once the legal status had returned, and also formed the basis of those who started the Huguenot Society in London in the 1880's.

                            As for Marie Ledoux, there is only one I have on my tree the right sort of age for the Abraham Miclo marriage, which is Marie Ledoux b. 29 Sep 1723 Bethnal Green, baptised at Threadneedle Street 29 Sep 1723. She was the youngest child of my 9 x great grandparents, Jean & Marie Louise Ledoux (first cousins!), sister to my 8 x great grandfather Jean Ledoux b.1711. I don't have a marriage for her to date, so presuming no other potential Marie's are knocking about that I have missed, it could well be her. I'll have to check on that!

                            Not got any details of the Tisshaws to date, but will have a look and see if I can find anything.

                            Regards

                            Richard
                            Last edited by Richard; 09-04-12, 15:31. Reason: Spelling

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Had a look, and there is one other possible candidate for Abraham Miclo's wife a Marie Madeliene Ledoux (first cousin to the Marie in my post above) also born 1723. However I do favour the first as 'Madeliene' is never given as a middle name on the marriage, or any of the records of Abraham and Mary's children's baptisms. As well as the three children they had baptised at St Matthew's Bethnal Green, Mary Sarah b.1753, Margaret b.1756 and Susanna b.1758, they had a daughter Marie baptised in 1743 at the Threadneedle Street Church. Her godparents were Jacques & Marie Ledoux. They were also the godparents at my 7xgreat grandmother Susanne Ledoux's baptism at same place in 1746. Jean and Marie had a brother Jacques (b.1719), whereas their cousin Marie Madeliene did not, so I think it's likely Abraham Miclo's wife was the sister of Jean.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X