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  • Phew! Hi Naomi - I'm Lyn by the way. Ok I'll try to answer the questions as best I can some I know for sure others are difficult to be 1000 %
    1. Were the children surnamed. answer Yes, except John Draper junior shown as aged 12 and a boarder on the 1891 census. Mum remembers the name but not who it was.
    2. How do I know Julia didn't remarry. Well firstly, we all kind of knew that grandad's parents weren't married he was ashamed of it. Also since I don't believe John Draper did die, but went instead to prison in 1881, I have the record and am pretty sure it's him, especially as I have also found records for Julia, her father and John Stradling all for burglary and in Julia's case receiving, though she was aquitted in this instance. (Julia married John Draper in 1876 - I have the record and the banns) for I believe 11 years and 5 years supervison as he had committed the crime whilst having previous convictions. I did see a record for him going to Canada but lost it before I discovered if it was him or his son and haven't followed that up again yet. And as divorce from a Christian marriage (Julia married in Christchurch, St Marylebone, required an act of parliament then, and we know they were very poor, it seems very unlikely and I can find no evidence of any remarriage under any of her names. i.e. Dunthorne, Draper or Stradling.
    4. No I don't have the certificate for John Stradling's death, only a record that I am pretty sure is him as we know from his daugther Harriet that she and her sister Emma were found desitute and taken into Gordon House soon after their father's death, at least that's what they believed. We also know that the record of their admission says "parent in prison" but not which parent or why.
    5&6&7. Who is Steven - a good question, definately not John Stradling and do know grandfather had a "hated stepfather, Uncle Stephen" - I listened a lot from my "playhouse under Nana's dining table and the adults often forgot I was there! He called himself "Stradling" but was definately not grandad's brother and again have vague childhood memories of grandad saying this. On the 1901 census Steven and Julia call themselves Stradling and "husband and wife" and he is shown as the father of grandad and sister Julia Charlotte at the baptism, but he couldn't have really been as a) julia charlotte was born in 1893 when Julia was with John and Grandad was born in 1897 the same and his birth and marriage certificates clearly say father John Stradling and Mother Julia Dunthorne.
    7. Full address for Campbell street - I only know 29 Campbell Street, Paddington St Mary, but it's not there now.
    8. Julia Dunthornewas born in 1859 according to her birth record and marriage record, however it changes to about 1860 and later 1861 on the later censuses but since we know that the census rounded people's age down by 5 years, this is hardly suprising.
    9. No as far as I can discover she does not have a middle name at all, only her daughters have one.
    10. I have found a death record for a Julia Draper in Mitford, Norfolk for 1905 stating born 1863, but seems unlikely to have been her in view of grandad saying he grew up in Kent near Maidstone and stayed there until his Mother died when he was 12 and he ran away to sea to get away from his "stepfather". I do wonder to what extent he actually ran away or could have been sent on some kind of training workhouse type initiative, since I have discovered that the address he gave when he returned to England in 1915 and the same address as his sister Julia Charlotte puts on her marriage 7 years later, is some kind of Church alms place, though I have yet to discover what. The address was 2 Priory Road, maidstone aka Priory House, and we know that sister Harriet went to East Farleigh and took her son to see "grandma called Mrs Stradling" on a farm there, but no more can I find.
    Phew!again hope that is of some use, Harriet's grandsons and I have been struggling with this for several months now.
    Exhausted now, think I'll go and have a shower and do the shopping!!
    lyn

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    • Hi Lyn – have you looked in http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/forms/formMain.jsp and also in http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/
      which is good for addresses amongst other things. It’s also worth looking at the Canada option again. Have you got your grandfathers records of going away to sea? Have you been in touch with a library or family history society in Maidstone? It does sound like the children were placed in care in various locations. Boys and girls were often split up as well. I think there’s some info in here on workhouses etc. Do you have certs for the other children besides your grandad? Are you sure that John didn’t change his name to Stephen/Steven? You can ask the archives about 29 Campbell Street http://www.westminster.gov.uk/servic...ry/paddington/. Do you subscribe to Ancestry etc. By deduction, you might find Julia that way and not necc’ in the location where you’d presume she would be. Look at all the surnames.

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      • Hi Naomi,
        Thanks for that. Yes I do subscribe to ancesty, that's how I found DiD, have tried Julia under every possible combination but no joy, am pretty sure John didn't change his name to stephen - why keep the Stradling name if so anyway. Have also tried the local history society but no reply yet. I do have certs for the other children ( or at least my cousin does) and we have collaborated over this extensively. I shall certainly look at the websites you mention. Many thanks Lyn

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        • Originally posted by maudarby View Post
          Hi Naomi
          Does the JL that has sent you info, have connections to the Levien family or is just interested in Di's family? I have downloaded the wills of Gotchel & Henry & have just started putting together a tree on Tribal Pages from people named in G Levien's will. Some of this info does not quite tally up with JL's tree that you sent to me. This family was mega, mega rich & I can't quite equate this with Solomon (cabinet maker) & Henry (french polisher) but there may be a black sheep that strayed from the fold.
          Moggie
          Originally posted by naomiatt View Post
          Hi Moggie - JL was just helping. Does Henry's will seem more of a likely candidate? Gotchal's info was also sent to me by PC who is distantly connected.
          When you've put the info up, is it poss to have a look?
          Naomi
          Hello Moggie and Naomi,

          I think I have finally found lineage to Gotchal Levien. My father's ancestry is Jamaican. I started a new thread here:

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          • Great news...

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            • Hi Slevien

              I had a lot of contact with a guy directly descended from Gotchal Levien and who was born in Jamaica. You may find him in the depths of this thread, if not pm me your e-mail address and I will pass it on to him.

              Di

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              • Originally posted by DiD View Post
                Hi Slevien

                I had a lot of contact with a guy directly descended from Gotchal Levien and who was born in Jamaica. You may find him in the depths of this thread, if not pm me your e-mail address and I will pass it on to him.

                Di
                Thank you Di. Will do.

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                • At the risk of sending everybody off on a wild goose chase again, have just been sent a copy of a christening, James Thompson born 7/12/1800 christened 8/1/1801 in Norwich. Parents Samuel and Lydia Sove!!! Interesting,,,

                  Di

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                  • Hmm, not come across the surname before Di....the plot thickens again.... :-)

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                    • Told record says Love not Sove! Can see Sove in America, hoped it sounded Jewish. Wonder why the loves christened him a different name?

                      Di

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                      • There is a Lydia Love death reg, Dec quarter, 1866, aged 75 in Norwich...and a Samuel Love, also in Norwich, death reg Sept quarter, 1847, not sure of his age..
                        Last edited by naomiatt; 13-03-14, 06:44.

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                        • Thanks, still trying to prove James Thompson and Solomon Levien are different people

                          Di

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                          • I know this is a very old thread but if anyone here is a descendant of Gotchal Levien and any of his descendants; Solomon Levien, Sidney Lindo Levien, etc., please let me know if you have done or interested in dna testing. My family are the Levien's from St. Catherine, Jamaica. Our ancestors have always said we are descendants of Gotchal Levien and I would like to verify if this is true. I have already done dna tests on many of my family members. The results show that we have Ashkenazi in our blood. Thank you for your help.

                            Kind regards,

                            Sandra Levien

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                            • Me again! I have been sent a copy of an interesting entry in which the name looks like Graseland and then underneath it says alias Thompson for administrative purposes. If I knew how to add a photo I could show you, but what is all that about?

                              Di

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                              • Originally posted by naomiatt View Post
                                Hello Di. Going back in time, do you have any Jewish ancestry in your background?
                                Levien can be a Sephardic name originating from Spain, Portugal and Arabia/Persia.
                                It can also be Levi etc and you'll often see it in the same way as yours.
                                Or it could come from Levine, or Levin which were sometimes altered to make them sound less Jewish. Le Vin with the accent on the "Vin" is another example. There is a right-wing American radio talk show host who has the name Mark Levin but pronounces this way as if he was French. Is there other evidence of Jewish ancestry in your famliy line? It seems that there is based on my brief perusal of other postings. I know a lot about Judaism though I am not Jewish myself so those reading this post feel free to ask questions about all things Jewish if related to genealogy.
                                Amelia

                                My avatar is my grandfather William as a baby. His origins are shrouded in mystery.....

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                                • Harry Levien Thompson (Soldier) 1866

                                  Hello,
                                  My name is Trish McLeod and I live in Sydney, Australia. I do not have any information to offer but would love to hear if anyone can provide further information re my enquiry below.
                                  I am trying to put a name to the father of my Grandmother Kathleen Mary Tancred Thompson who was born out of wedlock in 1890 Leighlinbridge, Carlow, Ireland. She took assisted passage to Sydney, Australia in 1911. Kathleen was Catholic.
                                  Noted on her marriage certificate were mother – Mary Tancred and father Harry Thompson soldier.
                                  I have located her Mother Mary Tancred through DNA matches. Harry Thompson has proved more elusive. My Auntie, Kathleen’s only surviving child, recently did a DNA test and her ethnicity was not what we expected noting 10% European Jewish. One of her DNA matches notes a James Thompson and Charlotte Gabriel. Charlotte’s parents are noted as Levy Gabriel and Judith Barnet.
                                  I started researching the link looking for a Harry / Henry and found a George Levien Thompson as having a Henry who was a soldier. George’s sister was Emma Esther Thompson noted in the family tree of the close DNA match.
                                  During the process I found this brilliant forum which has helped match other matches back to James Thompson/ Solomon Levien and Charlotte Gabriel.
                                  I would love to hear if anyone can shed some light.
                                  Cheers Trish

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                                  • Hi Trish and welcome to the family. If you have had a fortnight to follow this thread you will see that Henry, George’s brother married Ella Shoebridge and had a son called Louis who you can find on the web.

                                    Di

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                                    • Hello Di,
                                      Thank you for the welcome and for starting this forum. It has been so helpful but I am a little overwhelmed wading my way through name changes and the marriages within families. My Auntie and I have matches with the names Goldsmid and Solomon/s and they both appear to share Cohen as a common link. These names come up in the forum and I am using that info to try and build the connections back to Jacob Gabriel (1760) and Vrumat Lipman. I have found Henry Levien Thompson's military record and the dates seem to fit in with my Grandmother's birth in 1890. Henry would have been single and his first child was not born until 1909 - Lewis the poet. Mary Tancred married about 1896 to another English soldier. She was Catholic and I imagine any sort of union between her and Henry would have been frowned upon. Di is there anyway I can access photos of the Levien Thompsons?
                                      Cheers Trish
                                      P.S my Grandmother Kathleen was an unpublished poet - serendipity or genetic?

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                                      • Hi Di,
                                        I just wanted to let you know that I found photographs of George, Henry and Lewis Levien Thompson on the My Heritage Database. I am really not having much success tracing back the DNA matches and I am hoping closer matches will eventually appear and provide some insight. The forum has been an asset - thank you again.
                                        Trish

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