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  • Lesley

    Um? Very interesting! All those Whitcomb Baptisms at Holy Trinity Gosport. I have absolutely no idea who these people were. I've concentrated on the Free BMD index, and got a very good picture of post 1837 Whitcomb families in the Alverstoke area. Most of this data I've managed to 'tie up' using the census returns from 1841 onwards. From this data I can only assume these 'Holy Trinity' families moved on - (could some have been military?) - and left no descendants in Alverstoke??? So confusing, the similar names and the narrow time scale from 1793 to 1799.

    The only possibility is that Charles son of Thomas and Sarah was Charles Benjamin's Father?

    I think we have established that Charles Benjamin's parents were Charles and Martha and that he was born in 1815. (Bapt 1835!!!)

    You also found a George son of George and Mary baptised 1795, this ties in with some of my dates.

    I suppose a Marriage of George (Son of) and Mary ?(School Mistress) would 'clinch' it. I would expect the marriage to be between 1814 and 1819.

    I have a burial record of a Mary Ann Whitcomb Daughter of George dated 1825 - Mary Ann was 2 Years old.
    Also a burial record of George Son of George dated 1822 - George was 3 Years old.
    These were at St Marys Alverstoke (from Knightroots).

    They had at least 2 other children, Thomas and Selina, who survived. I'm here to prove it!!!


    Ray

    Comment


    • Sorry Ray!!

      Looks like I am making your research more difficult by bombarding you with all the Whitcombs I find!! Maybe I should bow out gracefully now! LOL

      Lesley

      PS Only joking!

      Comment


      • Lesley

        You have done a really great job of tracing possible leads for me, however I must agree that searching for 'Feral' Whitcombs in Gosport is a 'no brainer'!

        I think we have established that Charles Benjamin's family is remote from 'my' tree branch, so I do not think you should search any further. Unlike some of our 'Colonial' friends I do not wish to trace back to William the Conqueror or a wattle hut SW of Stonehenge!!!!! err and a family Crest!!!

        The 'branch' that I'm currently researching is that of George and Mary Whitcomb. George was my 3g Grandfather and I'd be interested to find his Baptism around 1895 and a marriage for him and Mary somewhere around 1818. It is possible that these events would have been at St Marys Alverstoke, but note that Mary was born in Portsea so is out of your area. George however was Gosport born.

        Also, at a bit of a 'tangent', Mary was a School Mistress all her life. I wonder if there are any school records / histories for the Alverstoke area that would mention her?
        Her Daughter Selina and Grandson Henry David Goldie also were teachers at some time, so I should think Mary was fairly 'committed'?

        Ray

        Comment


        • Originally posted by raywhit1942 View Post
          Lesley

          < ... snip ... >

          The 'branch' that I'm currently researching is that of George and Mary Whitcomb. George was my 3g Grandfather and I'd be interested to find his Baptism around 1895 and a marriage for him and Mary somewhere around 1818. It is possible that these events would have been at St Marys Alverstoke, but note that Mary was born in Portsea so is out of your area. George however was Gosport born.

          Also, at a bit of a 'tangent', Mary was a School Mistress all her life. I wonder if there are any school records / histories for the Alverstoke area that would mention her?
          Her Daughter Selina and Grandson Henry David Goldie also were teachers at some time, so I should think Mary was fairly 'committed'?

          Ray
          The IGI has a marriage for:
          GEORGE WHITCOMB
          to
          MARY PAGE COTTEN
          24 OCT 1819 Saint Marys, Portsea
          Batch - M062613

          Christine
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

          Comment


          • The IGI has quite a bit of Hampshire material - these batches are likely to be useful to you! C063151 & C073562

            You may also find this site useful: http://www.knightroots.co.uk/
            though I couldn't spot any likely hits for you there, today... Oh. Just re-read your earlier post. You do already have that link.

            Christine
            Last edited by Christine in Herts; 22-01-10, 13:10.
            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

            Comment


            • Hi Christine & Lesley

              That's it!

              GEORGE WHITCOMB
              to
              MARY PAGE COTTEN
              24 OCT 1819 Saint Marys, Portsea

              I've settled that a Mary Page Whitcomb died in Alverstoke in March 1875, and that she was Georges's wife (Widow).

              Given the unusual second name, Page, I think the Portsea marriage is pretty solid.
              Unusual names are a god send to genealogy!!! I'v come across a few in my own researches.

              Got Family round today, must rush!!!

              So many thanks

              Ray

              Comment


              • Ray. Re your last post about your 3x Gr. Grandfathers baptism. I assume that was a typing error and you meant his baptism around 1795 not 1895!! That baptism was 19/5/1795 at Holy Trinity.

                Lesley.

                Just seen your recent post today, so I am now refering to your second to last post!!!! Glad to see you have got the marriage of Mary and George sorted now. Well done. Christine!
                Last edited by Punchs mum; 23-01-10, 09:33.

                Comment


                • I was quite pleased when I found the IGI records. I knew there was a good chance because a chunk of my mother's family was there.

                  Do, please, have a look at the two batches I mentioned. They'll give you the baptisms for George and Mary - which gives you parents's names plus the chance to look for siblings.

                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                  Comment


                  • Christine. Well, I have learnt something new with regard to the IGI batch no. Records! Saves a lot of trawling through the microfiches!

                    Thank you for that. 'Never too old to learn' like they say.

                    Lesley
                    Last edited by Punchs mum; 24-01-10, 08:56. Reason: spelling!

                    Comment


                    • Lesley

                      Been looking at the IGI index, and although I've been there before now realise that there is a lot of very useful data on it. The problem with the IGI is that searching is very 'long winded', and has put me off.

                      Some time ago I found this web link which tries to 'unravel' some of the navigation issues:



                      Found that Charles and Martha also had a George!!! But considering family name conventions think its more likely that 'my' George is from George + Mary. Their first two children were baptised George and Mary respectively.

                      Ray

                      Comment


                      • Ray, That is where I have been looking, thanks to Christine! Couldn't belive there were 37 Whitcombs baptised in Holy Trinity in a reasonably short space of time!!

                        Yes, I agree with you regard your George being from George and Mary. It seemed usual to pass on parents names hence the complications it now causes those of us trying to sort out who is who.

                        Lesley

                        Comment


                        • Lesley

                          Whitcomb(e)s Galore!!!!

                          Having done a 'trawl' through the IGI data on Whitcomb in Gosport & Portsea I'm a little clearer as to the problems that arise when trying to make 'early' family trees.

                          The IGI has many entries relevant to my search, but is somewhat lacking in detail and possibly has some transcription errors?

                          One 'anomaly' is the entry about George Whitcomb son of George Whitcomb & Mary - 19 MAY 1795 Holy Trinity, Gosport, Hampshire, England .
                          I could find no other entries that could be tied to this event anywhere for that 'time frame', No marriage between a George and Mary, and no other births to that couple. However there is a George Whitcomb and Sarah that were having children around that time.

                          There is a Whitcomb 'Dynasty' that has interested me greatly, as it contains many 'familiar' first names. The family started with the marriage of Thomas Whitcomb to Honor Calls at Holy Trinity Portsea in 1762. They had a least 6 children (Baptised at Holy Trinity Gosport - must have moved across the river?), amongst them a son George Whitcomb christened in 1773.

                          A George Whitcomb married Sarah Snell in 1792 at Saint Marys, Portsea, but must have moved to Alverstoke where most of their children were born. After 1806 there are no more children for this marriage shown on the IGI, however - as we have already found - there is a marriage in 1819 Between a George Whitcomb and Mary Page Cotten. If the George in question is the one born 1773 to Thomas & Honor then Mart Page could be his second Wife?

                          What springs to mind is that the 1841 Census gives George Whitcomb's (the one married to Mary Page) birth year as 1786, and the 1851 Census gives his birth year as 1773!!!!! I always took this with a 'pinch of salt' as this puts him 21 years older than his Wife - and people do tell 'porkies' on Census forms, especially about age!! However taking into the above IGI data I'm now thinking that my George may be the son of Thomas & Honor born in 1773?

                          Mary Page Whitcomb died in Alverstoke aged 85 (Free BMD March 1875), and George Whitcomb died in Alverstoke in September 1856 (Free BMD).

                          If we could establish the age of George when he died from Parish records(Alverstoke circa Sept 1856), this may help to resolve some of my remaining questions.
                          Also, who was that George son of George & Mary - 19 MAY 1795 Holy Trinity, Gosport, Hampshire, England - I've heard of folks being Baptised on their death bed, but never before they're born !!! Perhaps my next email should be to the Vatican!

                          Ray

                          Comment


                          • Ray
                            I thought I had replied to you this morning but I can't find the posting so must have goofed somehow!!

                            I will check the burial record of George Whitcomb who died 1856 and check what age is given. Hopefully there should be an age!! He was probably buried in our local cemetery which is Anns Hill and burials started in 1855 so George should be there.

                            Also will check again that baptism of George s/o George and Mary at Holy Trinity 1795 to see if there are any more clues!

                            If you have no replies from the Vatican maybe someone on this Forum will offer some suggestions for you!! I am totally confused with all these Whitcombs.

                            Will be in touch when I have something for you.

                            Lesley

                            Comment


                            • Ray,

                              This what I found this afternoon at the Study Centre. Buried at Anns Hill Cemetery Gosport was

                              George Whitcomb Age 25 Carpenter of Clayhall, Alverstoke. Buried 21/7/1856 Plot 58 Concencrated ground.

                              Checked that baptism of George s/o George and Mary Whitcomb 1795 at Holy Trinity but nothing else is recorded. Sorry I can't help with that one.

                              Something else to tax you brain again now!!

                              Lesley

                              Comment


                              • Ann E, Have e mailed the scan of the Baptism Record you were after. Should be with you now.

                                Lesley

                                Comment


                                • Lesley, I wonder if you would mind returning to my Smiths (groan) again?

                                  I now have the Will of my 4xgreat grandfather William Smith dated 22nd May 1844 but I'm struggling to find the correct death certificate for him. He was Officer of Shipwrights at the Naval Dockyard and he was christened in 1768 at St Mary's Portsea but moved to Gosport as his wife Jane's family (nee Catto) lived there.

                                  On the 1841 Census he was living in Gosport with 3 of his children:
                                  1841 Census
                                  HO107; 388; 9 Alverstoke Folio 6; page 6; line 14
                                  North Street Alverstoke
                                  Elizabeth Smith 40 Publican Y
                                  William 70 Ind Y
                                  Charlotte 40 Ind Y
                                  George 30 Ind Y

                                  I think this was the Sun Tavern.

                                  Would you mind seeing if you could find a burial record for him - probably Holy Trinity?

                                  Elizabeth
                                  Research Interests:
                                  England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                  Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                  Comment


                                  • Elizabeth Herts

                                    Will certainly see if I can find anything for you. Hopefully, sometime next week.

                                    Lesley

                                    Comment


                                    • Lesley

                                      Thanks for the info

                                      This what I found this afternoon at the Study Centre. Buried at Anns Hill Cemetery Gosport was

                                      George Whitcomb Age 25 Carpenter of Clayhall, Alverstoke. Buried 21/7/1856 Plot 58 Concencrated ground.


                                      However I cannot get it to fit, so please could you sometime send me a scan of the entry.

                                      I've checked the census results for 1841 and 1851 and definitely George Whitcombe, carpenter, married to Mary appears to have been born around 1774. I even rechecked the 1841 census by closely inspecting the original scan and found a transcription error! The 'Fimdmypast' transcription gives George's age as 55, but the scan clearly shows 65! The 1851 census gives his age as 77, this corresponds with the scan.

                                      The census results also show that Mary was a Widow by 1861, thus George must have died sometime between 1851 and 1861. I've scanned the BMD register from 1850 to 1862 for George Whitcomb(e) deaths 'anywhere', and the only one that appears to fit the bill is the Alverstoke one. Is it at all possible that the age you read as 25 Years is in fact 85 Years??? Otherwise there was a George Whitcomb born circa 1824 (IGI data!?) who could possibly be the one in Anns Hill - although would be 32 Years old???

                                      Checked that baptism of George s/o George and Mary Whitcomb 1795 at Holy Trinity but nothing else is recorded. Sorry I can't help with that one.

                                      As I suspected. I reckon this is a mis-transcription. There were several George Whitcomb's born 1795 - 1806. I think its possible, considering marriage dates, that the George born 1795 could have belonged to George and Sarah Whitcomb?? But as you could find no reference in the Holy Trinity, Gosport records it may be an IGI 'glitch'?
                                      As an aside I've found several double entries (with slightely differing dates .etc) in the IGI index whilst just trawling for Whitcombs in a narrow time frame. I suppose when just 'recruiting Souls', accuracy is of secondary importance? A useful tool nevertheless, but not a substitute for real research.

                                      So ooooo in conclusion if you could recheck / send me the scan of the 1856 Burial to see if George Whitcombe, Carpenter, age 25? is correct, then I can proceed and order some GRO certificated to put the lid on it all!!!!! Hopefully.

                                      Ray

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Punchs mum View Post
                                        Elizabeth Herts

                                        Will certainly see if I can find anything for you. Hopefully, sometime next week.

                                        Lesley
                                        Thanks Lesley. I have looked at the Knightroots burials for Holy Trinity and he isn't there but I don't know if their list is complete as it looks rather short! I suppose it could have been the church in Alverstoke.

                                        Thanks so much.
                                        Elizabeth
                                        Research Interests:
                                        England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                                        Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                                        Comment


                                        • Elizabeth Herts.

                                          Checked the burial records yesterday for William Smith at Holy Trinity and Alverstoke 1841-1852 with no luck. There were a few William Smiths but none around the age bracket of your William. Also had a quick look at a couple of smaller churches which had burial grounds and again...nothing. Sorry to disappoint you. If I can help any more, please just ask.

                                          Lesley.

                                          Comment

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