Look ups offered in Alverstoke/Gosport hants

[Punchs mum]

Hi Jane, Not sure if the Parish Record will show what regiment the groom is in but will take a look for you as soon as I can. You never know!! You may be lucky!

Lesley.

[Jane M]

Thank you so much Lesley. I'm hopeful that it might give his regiment as it did on the baptism of his first child in 1833 in Porstmouth,

Jane

[Paul Moorhouse]

I’m a PhD student at St Andrews University and have found the above discussion of the Wimpory family on here from 2010. I've messaged Peter, but can anyone fill in some gaps for me related to this, and other posts on page 27 of this thread concerning Jonathan and Portia Wimpory?

My interest in the Wimporys is that they were friends and correspondents of John Thelwall the radical politician and poet, later a pioneer speech therapist. Jonathan accompanied Thelwall on a 'pedestrian excursion' in the summer of 1797 from London to Somerset. After they parted in Bath, Jonathan returned home 'on the Southampton stage' and Thelwall made his way to Alfoxton in the Quantocks where he hoped to settle with Coleridge and Wordsworth. Unfortunately, government agents and local suspicion that he was a French spy made the area so uncomfortable for Thelwall that he eventually settled on the Welsh borders.

We have a letter from Thelwall to Jonathan in 1797 and he was still writing to Portia shortly before his death in the 1730s [http://www.rc.umd.edu/reference/thel...nology/chrono]. I'd be interested to know if ayone’s researches have elicited more information about the family. I'm particularly interested in the following:

1) Was the Coventry Street shoemaker the same man? It would be particularly interesting if Thelwall's companion transmuted into a strike breaking employer in later life -- though not unprecedented, Thomas Hardy (not the novelist!) who founded the London Corresponding Society, with which Thelwall was associated and was co-accused with him in the 1794 treason trial, was a master shoe-maker and had to deal with strike by his workforce. There are some other references to the Coventry Street Wimpory available via the 'connected histories' website -- more stuff on the strike, someone successfully defending themselves against a charge of stealing a pair of boots from him in 1805 (they produced a receipt!) and a suggestion that he may have been bankrupt by 1824 -- the reference to a 'blott maker' is machine reading of 'boot maker'. [ http://www.connectedhistories.org/Se...-31&kw=wimpory ] Some of the linked sites are subscription only unfortunately but anyone who wants further details ask me and I can provide more details.

2) Was the Fleet Street shoemaker the same guy -- I suspect not -- was he the father of either of the younger Jonathans -- if they were not the same guy? Was HE the person who married Eliz Dawson in Bristol in 1753?

3) Linked to the last question, have you found any links which Jonathan had to the West Country -- Thelwall suggests that he stayed with relatives of Wimpory in Frome and Bath and visited friends or relatives he had in Bristol, may these have been linked via Eliz Dawson?

Any information you can let me have would be appreciated -- either via here or direct to PMM4@st-andrews.ac.uk -- Thanks Paul.

Thanks Lesley, I didn't really expect you to be able tell me anything more -- though what you found for Peter was very helpful to me too. I've made contact with Peter and suspect that anyone else who has the information I need will find my message here because they're searching for Wimporys! Peter doesn't have any answers but what he does know gave me some important pointers. Bertie, if you're reading this and think you can add anything, feel free to contact me. Also I know have a pretty complete biography for Jonathan from 1788-1828 thought frustratingly I have nothing outside those dates, so if anyone wants that information please shout. Thanks Paul.

[billybunter]

Do you know anything about Sarah Forvis born 1816 Gosport. I have not been able to find this surname anywhere.

[raywhit1942]

Hello Leslie

Its those Gosport Whitcombs again! I wonder if you could get a copy of an 1850 marriage between Selina Whitcomb & William Goldie. I have a Hampshire OPC listing for this, but would like to see the “Real Thing”, as it may help in finding William Goldie’s roots??? It appears he was born in Edinburgh circa 1811, but other that that is very sparse. Here is the OPC text:-

page 49 no 98 Oct 13 1850 William GOLDIE full age widower Gunner RN Fort Monckkton & Selina WHITCOMBE full age spinster Clayhall married by Registrarís certificate both signed fathers Wm GOLDIE ? & George WHITCOMBE Carpenter in the presence of Thomas WHITCOMBE & Mary WHITCOMBE.

Many Thanks and Happy Xmas

Ray

[Punchs mum]

Hi again Ray,

Those Whitcombs still causing you trouble then!! I will get you a copy of this marriage ASAP. Not a good time of year with Christmas not too far away now and me not being very organised! Hope you are not in too much of a hurry. Will let you know when I have got a copy for you.

Lesley.

[knightroots]

The OPC entry is a transcription of the full information from the register

Hello Leslie

Its those Gosport Whitcombs again! I wonder if you could get a copy of an 1850 marriage between Selina Whitcomb & William Goldie. I have a Hampshire OPC listing for this, but would like to see the “Real Thing”, as it may help in finding William Goldie’s roots??? It appears he was born in Edinburgh circa 1811, but other that that is very sparse. Here is the OPC text:-

page 49 no 98 Oct 13 1850 William GOLDIE full age widower Gunner RN Fort Monckkton & Selina WHITCOMBE full age spinster Clayhall married by Registrarís certificate both signed fathers Wm GOLDIE ? & George WHITCOMBE Carpenter in the presence of Thomas WHITCOMBE & Mary WHITCOMBE.

Many Thanks and Happy Xmas

Ray

[raywhit1942]

Hi Knightsroots

Is the OPC entry from a “Parish Register” or from the Statutory Registration? Would an “Official” marriage cert be any different from the OPC transcription? Especially interested in William Goldie’s father and his profession, and the signatures etc.

Ray

[Bertie]

Hi Ray. I'd suggest you get a scan of the marriage from the parish register as that has the original information and signatures. The certified version from GRO is a transcribed copy by one hand. Otherwise the contents should be identical

[adamgullidge]

I'm just stopping by to say that Punchs Mum is doing a wonderful job helping me trace the grave plots of my ancestors at Ann's Hill Cemertary. She has helped me track down the graves of many ancestors and provided photos too. For someone who no longer lives in the country this would be impossible. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Cheers.

[Punchs mum]

Look up for Jane M.

Not what you wanted to hear Jane. There was no mention of any Regiment by his name on the Parish Record for his marriage. BUT one of the witnesses has the 14th Regiment of foot along side his name. The witnesses were. as far as I could make out Elizabeth Morris and Stephen Morris. I stress, that is what it looked like but cannot be 100% certain. Maybe the baptism record of his daughter stated the Regiment incorrectly. Could you not find where the 14th Reg. of Foot was in 1832? Maybe a clue there.

Lesley.

[Punchs mum]

Hi Ray, With great difficulty and the aid of three (yes three) library assistants, I finally managed to get you a print out of the marriage of William Goldie to Selina Whitcombe!!! Unfortunately, it is not very clear though and the profession of Williams father is more or less illegible!! I don't think it will scan very well but who knows, with your computer skills maybe you can enhance it! Or, I can post it to you. Please let me know which you prefer. Can never understand why the Council installed a state of the art microfiche reader for public use, which even with the best will in the world, the majority of the staff cannot operate!

Lesley

[Bertie]

Hi Jane M. Thanks again to Lesley you do have a clue to follow up. I suspect that the witness was a fellow soldier in the same regiment (I have seen this before: and it makes sense). Unfortunately, this is (at 1832) before the fantastic Hart's Annual Army List (which started in 1840 and allows one to follow each regiment around the country or world year by year). However, the 14th regiment, per fibis, left India in December 1830 with most departing for Fort William and the rest departing for Gravesend (arriving there in Jul 1831). They had been in India for something like 25 years. So, it is possible at least they were in the Gosport/Portsmouth area in 1832

This regiment, like many, changed names over the years: in 1809 it was the 14th Buckinghamshire Regiment.

I note 14th and 84th are potentially easy to mistake. From a quick look I see that the 84th were in Jamaica in 1827 apparently remaining there until 1839. If that is correct, perhaps 84th is incorrect?

[raywhit1942]

Hi Lesley

Thanks for your efforts with that fiche reader. I had a similar experience at of all places the National Archives, they were also having trouble with their latest microfilm readers / digital printers and it was a challenge to get a print, the person next to me had actually resorted to his digital camera! Seems that the designers think that if they can understand their machine they came up with then so can everyone else!!!

The marriage record must be a bad copy as the OPC’s could not decipher the father’s profession. Perhaps its best that you post the scan to me to prevent any further degradation. I wonder if the GRO would have a better copy, but that’s a last resort!

Ray

[Punchs mum]

Hi Ray That's OK. Assume you have the same address and will post it off tomorrow to you. I have in fact, got two copies, as it was suggested that I photo copied it and make it darker but still the profession is illegible in my opinion. I wonder of the NA reader is the same as the one at our Study Centre. I remember I was once told (don't know true it is) that it cost around 5 Grand in all!! Not the sort of thing for amateurs to use with ease.

Lesley

[Jane M]

Thank you both, Lesley & Bertie for your help. Richard was definately in the 84th as I've traced him & the family out to India. So I fear I was barking up the wrong tree on that marriage. One day I'll find it,

Thank you both once again,

Jane

[raywhit1942]

Hello Leslie

Brilliant work! Yes this copy of William Goldie & Selena Whitcomb has provided me with some extra evidence for tracing the roots of William Goldie. The Fiche is of very poor quality and I doubt that any scanning or copying system could manage better than you and the Study Centre did, it seems that whoever did the original photography never really expected anyone to have real need of it!

It is sometimes useful if one has some idea of what to look for in a situation like this. In this case I had some information as to the possible father of William Goldie, but it did not tie in with the name given on the marriage transcript which was stated to be William, but noting the quality of the Fiche the transcriber nevertheless did a good job. I had obtained a birth cert for a William Goldie from Scotland’s People which ticked all the boxes except the name of William’s father which was written clearly as Henry Goldie, a Gunner in the RA, incidentally the same profession as his son took up. Carefully inspecting the father’s name on the 1850 Forton marriage cert seemed to me to be closer to Henry although it is little more than a few ’scratches’ on the paper. I reduced the brightness of the scan plus then increasing the contrast, but still saw only vague scratches, but then it struck me that the first character more closely resembled an H that an W. Looking to see if there were any capital H’s on the document there was the obvious “Hants” and then a possible H for the Vicar’s name. A little ‘Googling’ revealed that the incumbent at St John’s Forton had indeed been the Reverend Henry Aubrey Veck from 1841 to 1866! Both these H’s closely resembled the scratched first letter of the father’s name. (and esp.’ the Rev Henry A Veck)

There is one further confirmation I have to do to get to the bottom of this, and that is a visit to the NA to inspect an army record for a William Goldie which also ticks all the boxes, for dates & status anyway!

My interest on this lies not only in the obvious Whitcomb connection via Selena, but to help a more direct descendant of William Goldie trace her roots further back to Scotland.

I hope this little story may be of help to others in their quests back into the past. The service that you and others provide in getting access to the old documents is very much appreciated, thanks so much.

Happy Xmas & New Year

Ray

[Christine in Herts]

Hello Leslie

Brilliant work! Yes this copy of William Goldie & Selena Whitcomb has provided me with some extra evidence for tracing the roots of William Goldie. The Fiche is of very poor quality and I doubt that any scanning or copying system could manage better than you and the Study Centre did, it seems that whoever did the original photography never really expected anyone to have real need of it!

<snip>

Leslie

Is there any provision for viewing the original register when the fiche image is so poor? I believe that it is sometimes possible - and certainly worth the asking (if you have the time).

Christine

[Punchs mum]

Hi Christine. Must admit I have never asked that question but I am sure the staff would have mentioned it sometime over the many years that I have been doing these lookups if they had

Lesley

[raywhit1942]

Hi Christine & Lesley

I also asked that question. In this case I went to the web site of the church involved - St John’s Forton is still going strong. There was a family history section which stated all their records prior to circa 1960 had been given to Portsmouth Records office. I would assume that you would have to visit to find out more?

Regards

Ray