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    #41
    Hi Pascal,

    the exact link is below, but if this doesn't work it is under Mirecourt, Baptisms 1758, page 10 0f 36, entry number 120.

    http://www.archives-recherche.vosges...nter=776,-1094

    You didn't mention it, so I'm not sure if you saw the message I sent, but I am still feeling that the Joseph Pique and Jean Rousseau link in the
    Inventaire Summarie de archives departmentales anterueres a 1790 archives, ecclesiastiques, series G.H (French) is worth looking into. I do not know, so can you tell me what an Inventaire Summarie was. I am getting in touch with people as well that have trees on our family to see if they know anything else. I think it is strange to say your Father is a French Army Captain if he wasn't particularly at this time in Dover. It has been mused that he was a Prisoner of War and I also found an account of a Cadet Pique in the Middlesex Courts in England that was acquitted of larceny in 1815 and he gave his age as 30 which would be possible as he didn't arrive in Dover until 1815 and it also fits with the birth year he gives in the census. Is Cadet a rank on the French Army or Navy. I have rechecked the record, there is no more given than the details I have told you.
    Kind regards,

    Lisa

    Comment


      #42
      Originally posted by PiqueFamily View Post
      Hi Pascal,

      the exact link is below, but if this doesn't work it is under Mirecourt, Baptisms 1758, page 10 0f 36, entry number 120.

      http://www.archives-recherche.vosges...nter=776,-1094
      Hi Lisa,

      I have checked that link and that boy is named LE BEGUE, not LE PIQUE, and first names don't fit either.

      I will look at other matter later.

      Kind regards.
      Pascal

      Comment


        #43
        Originally posted by White Mist View Post
        Merci bien Pascal - vous etes gentil.

        Je pense que I am trying metre la charrue avant les boeufs!

        So, I need to take one step at a time and research the personal records first, the French BMD, census etc, about this man then find the military information afterwards – n’est pas?

        Most of the French information that I have about him has been gained from online sites - Family Search (Latter Day Saints), Geneanet and The National Archives UK. So I have not connected with the AD in Toulon yet.

        So, I will try to navigate the link that you gave and see what I can do.

        White Mist
        Bonjour White Mist,

        As I told you in my previous post (dated May, I suppose), I thought to go in Navy archives in Toulon... and I did. I found some information interesting for you. As military archives are very hard to manage, I thought I will go there again, probably before the end of this year.

        I also post that message to your private address.

        Pascal

        Comment


          #44
          Mon cher Pascal

          A friend of a friend was adopted into an English family. She was told that her natural grandfather was the tightrope walker Blondin. Blondin was born on 28 February 1824 at St Omer, Pas-de-Calais, France. His real name was Jean-François Gravelet and he was known also by the names Charles Blondin, Jean-François Blondin and called the "Chevalier Blondin", or simply "The Great Blondin".
          I think that most or all of his children may have been born outside France, but I would like to know if you can find any born in France and also anything about his parents.

          Michel
          Last edited by webwiz; 05-11-14, 09:43.

          Comment


            #45
            Originally posted by webwiz View Post
            Mon cher Pascal

            A friend of a friend was adopted into an English family. She was told that her natural grandfather was the tightrope walker Blondin. Blondin was born on 28 February 1824 at St Omer, Pas-de-Calais, France. His real name was Jean-François Gravelet and he was known also by the names Charles Blondin, Jean-François Blondin and called the "Chevalier Blondin", or simply "The Great Blondin".
            I think that most or all of his children may have been born outside France, but I would like to know if you can find any born in France and also anything about his parents.

            Michel
            Cher Michel (are you French?)

            I made a quick search in Saint-Omer but I found nothing. By chance, I found information on www.geneanet.org as he was born in Hesdin (here is the link to his birth record: http://archivesenligne.pasdecalais.f...itre=162909321 (if you can't get it, I will picture it for you). They also say about his parents and grand-parents who also had circus jobs (father was a gymnast and grandfather was a "jumpers director"). He married in Tarascon (Bouches-du-Rhône, 13, South of France) on Aug. 6th 1846 with Marie Blancheri. I can lead you to those records as well if you wish. Website speaks about a sister, but no children. As he was a travelling man, his children are recorded here and there, and they will be very hard to find... There is no Gravelet birth in 1846-1852 in Tarascon, but fortunately, their marriage record shows they want to legitimate a boy (Aimé Léopold) born on June 9th 1846 in Vauvert (Gard, 30). They also have signed a contract what could be very interesting to know their belongings, but it needs to go to Marseilles to read it.

            I hope this helps.

            Bien cordialement.
            Pascal

            Comment


              #46
              Hi Pascal

              Thank you for the very quick reply. No I am not French and to be honest my name is Michael. Your English is so good that I will not embarrass us both by trying my French.

              The information you have already provided is fascinating, but if you have the time to dig deeper my friend would really appreciate it. I tried the link to his birth but got a 250 page document which is hard to read. I would like to see the record of his marriage with Marie Blancheri. Also is there any record of Aime Leopold getting married and having children. By the way the surname is probably Gravelét (it is hard to do an accent with my English keyboard).

              Thanks again. If you ever need any research into UK on-line records that you can't access I owe you a favour.

              Michael
              Last edited by webwiz; 05-11-14, 16:40.

              Comment


                #47
                I thought my link goes directly to the right page. As it is not, choose page 45 in the upper right corner. You can adjust zoom, light (luminosité) and contrast. I will give you a quick translation later on. I will also picture his marriage record and send it to you. His wife probably died, unless they divorced, as I read on Wikipédia that he was buried with two wives, but no Marie/Mary. Maybe you can find something about her in England?

                No big chance to find anything about their children in France, as they moved from place to place and records are not yet centralized in France. Maybe Aimé married in England as well? No Aimé Gravelet on www.geneanet.org. About their family name, don't add any accent or it won't be French (ending "et" is pronounced "é").

                Speaking of me, my great-grand-mother was English and her parents came from Leicestershire to produce lace in Calais, so I will probably need some help one day...

                Pascal

                Comment


                  #48
                  Hi Michael,

                  I got a Word document for you but I don't know how to send it from here. I will try with a private message.

                  The document mentionned in their marriage record is not a contract but a permission to marry by her parents, so no much interest. About their son, we have no luck. On 99 French départements, only 5 or 6 are not yet online and Gard (n°30) is one of them! It won't be online before 2017... Fortunately, I am passing by sometimes and I can make a detour (and say my wife to go shopping...). No charge for me, of course, but I will send you my wife's invoice... :-)

                  If your friend wants more, I will tell you how to find other records online ("Give a fish to a man, he will eat one day. Teach him how to fish, he will eat every day...")

                  Pascal

                  Comment


                    #49
                    Hi Pascal,
                    I wonder if you could help.
                    I have found some information on an Ancestry tree which I am trying to confirm.

                    Dettmer, George Thomas b 1798 - d 1843 (London) (occ. Professor of Music / Pianoforte Maker)
                    - married Susanne Payne - died 24 April 1832 Paris

                    Children:
                    Rosina Emelia Dettmer
                    born 12 Jul 1824 - Paris,France
                    died 20 March 1852 (London)

                    Eloise/Heloise Elizabeth Dettmer
                    born 5 May 1828 - Paris ... not sure if this is a birth date, or baptism date - also found a mention of baptism 5 May 1828 British Embassy Chapel, France
                    died 1910 (Essex)

                    Georgina Dettmer
                    born 19 May 1830 - Paris, Île-de-France
                    died 11 December 1839 - Islington, London, England

                    Julliet Rhoda Dettmer
                    born 18 April 1832 - Paris, Île-de-France
                    died 30 April 1832 - Paris, Île-de-France


                    Any suggestions where I might find source records for the Paris events?
                    Elaine







                    Comment


                      #50
                      Hi Elaine,

                      Thanks for you message.

                      Problem with Paris is that records before 1860 have been destroyed by a big fire in 1870, so a lot are missing. They have been partly "reconstructed", but on Internet, you can only check names. If you find something, you must go to Paris to see record on microfilms (even record can have very poor information).

                      I found no Dettmer online but maybe sorting is not good as it is not a French name. You can check by yourself using that link: http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris....itue/index.php then choosing "naissance" (birth) and name. Anyway, you don't find record itself but only information that record exists and "arrondissement" (district) where to find it.

                      I go to Paris on Dec. 19th and I will check in Paris archives if I got time.

                      About Payne, I found no Susanne. The only three death records are Mary Ann d. 16/04/1851, Marie Ann d. 28/09/1856, and William Edward d. 05/07/1838.

                      Kind regards

                      Comment


                        #51
                        Many thanks for your reply Pascal. I'll take a look at the link you have given.

                        Re Susanne Payne - she was the wife of George Thomas Dettmer, so presume her death record would be under the name of Susanne Dettmer! Apologies for the confusion!
                        Elaine







                        Comment


                          #52
                          On French records, married women always keep their maiden name, sometimes with "spouse X" or "widow X" added.

                          Comment


                            #53
                            Originally posted by PascalMallet View Post
                            On French records, married women always keep their maiden name, sometimes with "spouse X" or "widow X" added.
                            You learn something new every day! Thanks for clarifying.
                            Elaine







                            Comment


                              #54
                              Just to add something...
                              The only 2 cases it is not the case as far as I know are for "military pensions" and "burial records" that are kept in cemetaries.

                              Happy New Year All!

                              Romain

                              Comment


                                #55
                                Originally posted by Moorea View Post
                                Just to add something...
                                The only 2 cases it is not the case as far as I know are for "military pensions" and "burial records" that are kept in cemetaries.

                                Happy New Year All!

                                Romain
                                Thanks for that, Romain, and Happy New Year to you too!

                                Comment


                                  #56
                                  Hello Pascal, are you still on the forum?

                                  Regards

                                  Mark

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by markoid1 View Post
                                    Hello Pascal, are you still on the forum?

                                    Regards

                                    Mark
                                    Hello Mark,

                                    Yes I'm still here.

                                    What do you need to know?

                                    Comment


                                      #58
                                      Originally posted by PascalMallet View Post
                                      Hello Mark,

                                      Yes I'm still here.

                                      What do you need to know?
                                      Hi Pascal,

                                      I just wanted to check I'm accessing the French records correctly.

                                      Firstly I find the approximate place (in my case this may be the Somme, Pas de Calais and Nord! departments! - as I'm looking for a World War one serviceman marriage to a French woman). Then I check the 10 year list for her birth. Once I find the entry (which confirms her birth) I then go to the more detailed naissance and see what I can find? If I'm right, that is a huge amount of records to check? Each village in each department..there are hundreds in each department... :( Makes it more rewarding in the end I guess!

                                      I did a surname check and it seems as though the surname (Sophy Jeanne Joly b.1877) is very common in Pas de Calais too, so I think I'll start there if I'm doing it right.

                                      Regards

                                      Mark

                                      P.S

                                      I've already considered she may have been Belgian or French-Canadian. I have asked some distant relatives for more information. But unlikely to get much. I know his regiment served in the 3 departments mentioned - so it is more likely she was French. I think ;)

                                      Comment


                                        #59
                                        Hi Mark,

                                        French records are much more detailed than in England, but on the other hand, they are not (yet) centralized, so you first must know WHERE before to access.

                                        About your search, I don't understand if you have already read 10 year lists (I suppose you speak of "Tables décennales") or if you plan to do it (it is the correct way to do, but you must know the town before to read them cause they are "town relative").

                                        What else have you got in their marriage record? Did they marry in France or in the groom's country (you don't say which country he was from)? If they married in France, as the warfront was not moving much (trenches), maybe you can see near which towns his regiment was and shorten you search that way, unless he met her where he was rested or in a hospital... As I have done a lot of search myself about my grand-father who died in North of France in 1914 (if you are interested, I wrote something about his last days there and part is already in English), I learnt that English troops were mostly rested in Armentières. Was she a "Mademoiselle from Armentières", as in that song?

                                        The other way is to see genealogy websites, such as www.geneanet.org (I searched it for you and found nothing) or www.genealogie.com. You are right to say that Joly is a very common name in North of France, but Sophie (not Sophy) is not so common, so it can shorten your search on Internet.

                                        I hope this helps.

                                        Kind regards.
                                        Pascal

                                        Comment


                                          #60
                                          Originally posted by PascalMallet View Post
                                          Hi Mark,

                                          French records are much more detailed than in England, but on the other hand, they are not (yet) centralized, so you first must know WHERE before to access.

                                          About your search, I don't understand if you have already read 10 year lists (I suppose you speak of "Tables décennales") or if you plan to do it (it is the correct way to do, but you must know the town before to read them cause they are "town relative").

                                          What else have you got in their marriage record? Did they marry in France or in the groom's country (you don't say which country he was from)? If they married in France, as the warfront was not moving much (trenches), maybe you can see near which towns his regiment was and shorten you search that way, unless he met her where he was rested or in a hospital... As I have done a lot of search myself about my grand-father who died in North of France in 1914 (if you are interested, I wrote something about his last days there and part is already in English), I learnt that English troops were mostly rested in Armentières. Was she a "Mademoiselle from Armentières", as in that song?

                                          The other way is to see genealogy websites, such as www.geneanet.org (I searched it for you and found nothing) or www.genealogie.com. You are right to say that Joly is a very common name in North of France, but Sophie (not Sophy) is not so common, so it can shorten your search on Internet.

                                          I hope this helps.

                                          Kind regards.
                                          Pascal
                                          Her husband was English, and they did not marry in the UK. I've spent a number of months looking, but nothing found. I know he was in the army and served in France with the Royal Warwickshire Regiment. So, I will cross reference their places of station and look for the close towns and work that way.

                                          I would be interested in reading your story about your grand-father.

                                          Thanks for your help, it will help me focus the search.

                                          Regards

                                          Mark

                                          Comment

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