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    Give help for French records

    Bonjour à tous! I am French and some of my ancestors came from England as lacemakers to produce tulle and lace in Calais. I just posted a new thread asking for some help for English records, but as I am quite comfortable with French records of any kind, I can also give information about how to handle tools for researches in France, especially on French websites.

    #2
    Do you think I will be able to trace my family if I don't know his parents names and only know his birth place as France ?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Leanne View Post
      Do you think I will be able to trace my family if I don't know his parents names and only know his birth place as France ?
      As there is no national archives for birth records in France, you must know where in France he was born. France is organized in 95 "départements" with their own archives and almost all are online. After you pass through this first step, you will find a lot of things on birth records, such as both parents names, if they are alive or deceased (sometimes where), godfather and godmother on baptism records, etc. (that depends on the date).

      If you don't know the place he was born, I can have a look for you at www.geneanet.org to see if your ancestor appears in some trees. I need his first name and surname, and approximate date of birth. You can also try by yourself (in upper right corner, you can choose your language) but you will only get a list if you're not a subscriber (€40/year).

      I hope this helps.

      Comment


        #4
        Hi Pascal, am I to assume you may be able to do look up checks in registers etc, if so, I would appreciate some help with my great grandfather whom I/we (other members of family) thought we had found until recently. But there now seems to be some doubt surrounding our 'so called' find. I would appreciate any advice you can offer. Thank you.
        Jen
        Avatar: One of my paintings.

        Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Jen~Ealogy View Post
          Hi Pascal, am I to assume you may be able to do look up checks in registers etc, if so, I would appreciate some help with my great grandfather whom I/we (other members of family) thought we had found until recently. But there now seems to be some doubt surrounding our 'so called' find. I would appreciate any advice you can offer. Thank you.
          Hi Jen,

          I offer to give you some hints about online French archives (most of 95 "départements" are on Internet now, and free access, but there is no national archives for parish nor civil records), and sometimes about records you find, but I can't guarantee to do more.

          To help you starting your research, I need to know names, place and date of the event about your great grandfather. Then I will try to tell you how to go further.

          Pascal

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by PascalMallet View Post
            Hi Jen,

            I offer to give you some hints about online French archives (most of 95 "départements" are on Internet now, and free access, but there is no national archives for parish nor civil records), and sometimes about records you find, but I can't guarantee to do more.

            To help you starting your research, I need to know names, place and date of the event about your great grandfather. Then I will try to tell you how to go further.

            Pascal
            Thank you Pascal.
            First off, I am unsure of his exact d.o.b could be anywhere between 1829 and 1833. On one census he is saying he is from America and on another he is down as coming from St Omer in Calais.
            His name is William Henry Tyson (or French equilvalent Touson).
            On 1861 census he is supposedly living with a wife named Kate from Ormskirk. We have found no trace whatsoever of her or a marriage for them. The census we believe was done in April. By the August of that yr, he had married my g. grandmother and they gave the same address on the marriage certificate.
            Stating himself to be a widower of 40 yrs and g. grandmother aged 26.....which is wrong as she was only 19.
            Her name is Martha Chandler born 1841 in Liverpool.
            The reason we are/were convinced he may have been French is because my late father was told so. He never met him.
            The only other info we have to go on is from the marriage cert. His Father's name John and occupation, Cooper.
            We did a search by fiche on the St Omer records, where we though we had found him and his parents (father had same name John), and 3 siblings. However, more recently and on closer inspection of the poor transcription, a cousin bevlieves this to be incorrect.
            So we are back to scratch really and totally at a loss as to where to look now.
            Anything you could suggest I do would be appreciated. I know my cousin keeps going back to him but it is over 12 months now and nothing else has turned up.
            We have all his history coming forwards from 1861.....it is the trail backwards which is eluding us. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
            Jen
            Avatar: One of my paintings.

            Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you Jen for all those details. I will try to help you, but only tomorrow evening as I am not home tonight nor tomorrow. I already think about few tracks.

              Pascal

              Comment


                #8
                Hello Pascal, I wonder if you could point me in the right direction please. I have Agatha Ariel marrying Francois Giacobbi in Paris in 1847. Agatha was married to Edward Clark in England and they divorced in 1845. She must have gone back to her maiden name. I have never found her death but from other family records it should be around 1850/51/52. As she was only 25 when she married in Paris, there could also be another child or two. Would you have any ideas of other places I could possibly check? Thank you.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by PascalMallet View Post
                  Thank you Jen for all those details. I will try to help you, but only tomorrow evening as I am not home tonight nor tomorrow. I already think about few tracks.

                  Pascal
                  Thank you Pascal, whenever you have the time. I appreciate it.
                  Jen
                  Avatar: One of my paintings.

                  Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jen~Ealogy View Post
                    Thank you Pascal.
                    First off, I am unsure of his exact d.o.b could be anywhere between 1829 and 1833. On one census he is saying he is from America and on another he is down as coming from St Omer in Calais.
                    His name is William Henry Tyson (or French equilvalent Touson).
                    On 1861 census he is supposedly living with a wife named Kate from Ormskirk. We have found no trace whatsoever of her or a marriage for them. The census we believe was done in April. By the August of that yr, he had married my g. grandmother and they gave the same address on the marriage certificate.
                    Stating himself to be a widower of 40 yrs and g. grandmother aged 26.....which is wrong as she was only 19.
                    Her name is Martha Chandler born 1841 in Liverpool.
                    The reason we are/were convinced he may have been French is because my late father was told so. He never met him.
                    The only other info we have to go on is from the marriage cert. His Father's name John and occupation, Cooper.
                    We did a search by fiche on the St Omer records, where we though we had found him and his parents (father had same name John), and 3 siblings. However, more recently and on closer inspection of the poor transcription, a cousin bevlieves this to be incorrect.
                    So we are back to scratch really and totally at a loss as to where to look now.
                    Anything you could suggest I do would be appreciated. I know my cousin keeps going back to him but it is over 12 months now and nothing else has turned up.
                    We have all his history coming forwards from 1861.....it is the trail backwards which is eluding us. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
                    I am now back home. First of all, I think you should go to "Pas-de-Calais" online archives and look in "Etat civil" then in "Tables décennales" (TD) of Saint-Omer. Since about 1793, all NMD records (births, marriages, deaths) are listed every 10 years (can be more or less depending of how big the town is). A 10-year period usely begins in xxx3 and ends in xxx2. Most of the time, you get births first, then marriages and deaths. All names are in alphabetical order, but sometimes only sorted by first letter then by dates, sometimes by sorted by full alphabetical order but year after year. If there is a record, you will quickly find it with date and sometimes a number (it can happens that some have not been reported in TD...). Take care that 7bre is short for September (not July), 8bre, 9bre, and 10bre or Xbre for December. After you got the dates, you can look at the record.

                    You can also check in towns around Saint-Omer. As it is a big town, it is also a "chef-lieu de canton" (group of "communes", towns), and it leads two cantons. So, in Google, search for "Canton de Saint-Omer Nord", then "... Sud". That will give you the names of the towns around.

                    About censuses, you can see the date on last page.

                    If he was French, then he went to the army or at least he went to check if he can go when he was 20, so 1849 to 1853. Those lists can only be seen in AD in Arras (main town of Pas-de-Calais), and online from 1867.

                    If he was American and became French, you may go to Archives nationales (AN) website http://www.archivesnationales.cultur...han/index.html, then click on "Instruments de recherche", then on "NAT" in "Base de données". If your ancestor became French before 1854, he is there! In next window, click the small square before NAT and "Recherche simple". In next window, type the name you're looking for. The files for naturalization are really full of details but they are not online (you got only a reference number). If you find something, just tell me. If he has been naturalized after 1853, that's more tricky as you may only search on microfilms in Paris. Then again you got a reference number and you must book the file for your next visit to AN... It takes time but it is really fantastic when you find it. That's something I could do for you when I go to Paris.

                    If you don't successe, the last thing I suggest is to take a look to the records you got, and see if you or your cousin didn't miss something important. I will tell you my email address.

                    Good luck!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Harrys mum View Post
                      Hello Pascal, I wonder if you could point me in the right direction please. I have Agatha Ariel marrying Francois Giacobbi in Paris in 1847. Agatha was married to Edward Clark in England and they divorced in 1845. She must have gone back to her maiden name. I have never found her death but from other family records it should be around 1850/51/52. As she was only 25 when she married in Paris, there could also be another child or two. Would you have any ideas of other places I could possibly check? Thank you.
                      Hello,

                      First of all, a woman is always recorded with her maiden name. So, you must search for ARIEL.
                      Go to Paris archives website http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/ and click on "Consulter l'état-civil de Paris", then "Accéder aux fichiers alphabétiques" on next window. For children, if any, do same but with her husband's name. Unfortunately, 2/3 of 8 millions records dated before 1860 have been destroyed during 1871 revolution. So, good luck!

                      Another hint, is to look at www.geneanet.org website (English interface by choosing your language in the upper right corner). Choose "Ile de France" as region. If you find something, I will look for you deeper as I am a subscriber. Another famous website is http://www.geneaservice.com/archives...ance-deces.php where you can find reconstruction of some missing records from parish records, etc. You must pay a fee to get the results.

                      Another track is to check for her succession, but that can be done only in Paris.

                      I hope it helps.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Wow...so much information Pascal, thank you. It may take some time for us to get through.
                        One thing I did forget to mention in the information I gave you was that on the British/English census' he is recorded as being born in France BS. So a british subject. So at least one if not both of his parents were English but will this make any difference to the way I search.
                        I am intrigued about what you say about the Army or other forces (Navy) as I did wonder if he may have been a serving seaman and at one time gone to America........
                        The reason for this being that we did find a prison record for him in England. In 1870 he gave his age as 44 (which would give d.o.b as 1826), he served one months hard labour and in the description given of him, he had a scar on his left cheek, 2 pierced ears, walked with a limp as his leg had been broken above the right knee and he had a Anchor & Flag tattoo on his left forearm. He also gave his place of birth as America.
                        One could imagine from this description he could have been a pirate.......I just wish I knew what flag he had tattoed on his arm, that may have given more of a clue.
                        I don't suppose you could surmise anything from all this Pascal?
                        Jen
                        Avatar: One of my paintings.

                        Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Jen~Ealogy View Post
                          Wow...so much information Pascal, thank you. It may take some time for us to get through.
                          I don't suppose you could surmise anything from all this Pascal?
                          I first understood that it was Saint-Omer censuses.
                          That's great to find such a description! I hope you will find more. Just let me know.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by PascalMallet View Post
                            I first understood that it was Saint-Omer censuses.
                            That's great to find such a description! I hope you will find more. Just let me know.
                            Thanks Pascal, I just hope it may mean something.
                            Jen
                            Avatar: One of my paintings.

                            Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thank you Pascal....I will try those suggestions.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Pascal
                                Thanks for offering to help.
                                To clarify, following on from the Leicester to France and back again thread, I’m trying to obtain a full transcription from the Wazemmes registers for :
                                Jacques Edmond CLAY registered 11 Nov 1838 and
                                Jean-Baptiste CLAY registerd 9 July 1840
                                Also if possible, Joseph Ernest Jones Clay born about 1842 who didn’t appear in this register but was probably born in the Lille region.
                                Parents: Thomas CLAY/Louisa JONES
                                Thanks again

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                                  Pascal
                                  Thanks for offering to help.
                                  To clarify, following on from the Leicester to France and back again thread, I’m trying to obtain a full transcription from the Wazemmes registers for :
                                  Jacques Edmond CLAY registered 11 Nov 1838 and
                                  Jean-Baptiste CLAY registerd 9 July 1840
                                  Also if possible, Joseph Ernest Jones Clay born about 1842 who didn’t appear in this register but was probably born in the Lille region.
                                  Parents: Thomas CLAY/Louisa JONES
                                  Thanks again
                                  Hello,

                                  You can find both birth records you search for at Archives départementales du Nord. Here is the link to their website: http://www.archivesdepartementales.c...rchives_online. Click on "Etat civil" then on "Actes" (records), then choose "Lille (Wazemmes)" as town, then the time period and the kind of records you search for ("N" means Naissances: Births). As you know the birth dates (I guess you got them in "Tables décennales"), go to these pages. You can zoom if you like. As I did it for you, here are the pages number and transcription-translation:

                                  (Page 458) L’an 1838, le 11 novembre, à une heure de l’après-midi …
                                  … est comparu Thomas Clay
                                  né à Leicester, âgé de trente-sept ans, ouvrier en tulle
                                  domicilié en cette commune, rue de Voltaire, lequel nous a présenté un
                                  enfant de sexe masculin, né hier à huit heures du matin, de lui
                                  comparant et de Louise Jonéa, née à Leicester (Angleterre),
                                  âgée de trente-deux ans, son épouse, et auquel il a déclaré
                                  vouloir donner les prénoms de Jacques – Edmond – Jean

                                  … devant Louis Cornille, âgé de trente-sept ans,
                                  garde champêtre, non parent de l’enfant,
                                  domicilié à Wazemmes et Henri Sculford, âgé de
                                  trente-huit ans, écrivain, non parent dudit enfant,
                                  domicilié au même lieu.

                                  Après lecture, le père et les témoins ont signé avec nous le
                                  présent acte de naissance.

                                  Year 1838, November 11th, 1:00 pm …
                                  … has appeared Thomas Clay
                                  bors in Leicester, 37 years old, worker in tulle factory
                                  living in this town, Voltaire St., who has shown to us
                                  a male child born yesterday 8:00 am, from him
                                  appearing before us and from Louise Jonéa, born in Leicester (England)
                                  32 years old, his spouse, to whom he has declared
                                  to wand to give first names …

                                  … declaration and showing done before Louis Cornille,
                                  aged 37, constable [?], not related to child,
                                  living in Wazemmes and Henri Sculford
                                  aged 38, writer, not related to child
                                  living in same town.

                                  After reading, father and witnesses have signed with us the
                                  current birth record.

                                  (see my next post)

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Here is second birth record:

                                    (Page 598) L’an 1840, le 9 juillet, à quatre heures de l’après-midi …
                                    … est comparu Thomas Clay
                                    né en Angleterre, âgé de trente-neuf ans, faiseur de tulle
                                    domicilié en cette commune, rue de Voltaire, lequel nous a présenté un
                                    enfant de sexe masculin, né hier à une heure du matin, de lui
                                    comparant et de Louise Jones, née à Leicester (Angleterre),
                                    âgée de trente-quatre ans, son épouse, et auquel il a déclaré
                                    vouloir donner les prénoms de Jean - Baptiste

                                    … devant Charles Larrac, âgé de trente-six ans,
                                    tulliste, non parent de l’enfant,
                                    domicilié à Wazemmes et Guillaume Clay, âgé de
                                    trente ans, tulliste, oncle dudit enfant,
                                    domicilié au même lieu.

                                    Après lecture, le père et le second témoin ont signé le
                                    présent acte de naissance, le premier témoin ayant dit ne le savoir faire.

                                    Year 1840, July 7th, 4:00 pm …
                                    … has appeared Thomas Clay
                                    bors in England, 39 years old, tulle maker
                                    living in this town, Voltaire St., who has shown to us
                                    a male child born yesterday 1:00 am, from him
                                    appearing before us and from Louise Jones, born in Leicester (England)
                                    34 years old, his spouse, to whom he has declared
                                    to wand to give first names …

                                    … declaration and showing done before Charles Larrac,
                                    aged 37, tulle maker, not related to child,
                                    living in Wazemmes and Guillaume Clay
                                    aged 30, tulle maker, child’s uncle
                                    living in same town.

                                    After reading, father and second witness have signed the
                                    current birth record, first witness has said not to know to do it.

                                    For the 3rd birth, as records are not centralized anywhere, you must go to all Lille "Tables décennales", then find record as I told you. Take care that sometimes, names are not sorted by alphabetical order, but only by first letter. You can find 7bre what means September, 8bre, 9bre, and 10bre or Xbre what means December. I guess you will now translate it by yourself.

                                    If you don't find anything in Lille, you can see the towns around by going there: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_cantons_du_Nord and see in "Arrondissement de Lille".

                                    I also know that some people in Leicester to France and back again thread are also searching for Clays.

                                    I hope this helps.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Are you still giving people help with genealogy?

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by jarmon20 View Post
                                        Are you still giving people help with genealogy?
                                        Yes, absolutely.

                                        Comment

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