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  • Originally posted by Fern View Post
    An update, after getting the death record of son George, where the writing was far more legible, I found that their mother's surname was Love not Grove as originally thought. It also stated that George was born North Ireland.(probably Northern Ireland).
    Not surprising then that I couldn't find any info. Just maybe I might get somewhere this time round.!
    Fern,

    There’s no record of a marriage between Andrew Campbell and Mary Ann Love in the stat records (which start on 1.4.1845) so as before, it looks as though the couple married before that. In which case you will need to rely on church records.

    Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church. You’ll need to hope that Mary Ann wasn’t Church of Ireland as the records for Killaghtee (the parish that Ballyederlan is in) were all destroyed in the 1922 fire in Dublin. If it was a Presbyterian ceremony, then the 2 nearest churches appear to be Donegal 1st & Donegal 2nd. Donegal 1st has baptisms from 1824 onwards and marriages 1824 to 1843 and then April 1845 onwards. Donegal 2nd has no baptism records before 1865 and no marriage records earlier than April 1845. Both churches are about 15 miles from Ballyederlan which seems quite a trek but I don’t know of any closer.

    So the only likely records to check appear to be the pre 1845 marriage records in Donegal 1st, plus their baptism records c 1849 for James (and for any siblings). Donegal 1st’s records are not on-line anywhere (so far as I am aware). However there is a copy in PRONI (the public record office) and I could look them up for you. I can also check with the Presbyterian Historical Society to find out whether there were any other Presbyterian churches closer to Ballyederlan at one time but which have since closed. If so, I’ll check those records, if they have survived. (There would be a small charge for searching the church records as I would need to go into Belfast to do it).

    Regarding George being born in Northern Ireland, that could be completely correct. The family may have moved there. However information on death certificates often contains mistakes. It’s only as reliable as the informant’s knowledge which must obviously be 2nd hand. The family may have moved from Donegal to what is now Northern Ireland (it’s only been called that since 1922) but it’s also common for people to believe that Co Donegal, being in the province of Ulster, and in the north, is part of Northern Ireland. (It’s actually in the Republic of Ireland), and so it might be worth bearing that in mind. He may well have been born in the Ballyederlan area along with James but the informant on the death certificate may just have made a mistake in saying Northern Ireland as his place of birth.
    Last edited by Elwyn; 11-09-15, 08:19.
    Elwyn

    I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

    Comment


    • Thanks for your reply. I have 3 civil registration marriage entries @ General Registry,Dublin (Ireland civil Regn.)
      1. Mary Ann Love,event 1849,Donegal Ireland, page no. 559
      2. Mary Ann Love,event 1846,Donegal Ireland, " " 599
      3. Mary Love, event 1848,Donegal Ireland, " " 562.
      The records show that she was known as Mary Ann, and these events are in the time frame.

      Comment


      • Fern,

        According to the Irish civil indexes, Mary Ann Love who married in 1849 married either Walter Stephenson or James Friel. The 1848 marriage was to either Robert Wynne, John Spence, Samuel Carson or William Walker. The 1846 marriage was to David Holland or Hulland.


        None of those marriages is indexed as being to Andrew Campbell. Therefore, it seems to me, your marriage must have been before 1.4.1845.
        Elwyn

        I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

        Comment


        • Many thanks for that info Elwyn, I really thought I had struck the bulls eye :( if you could search some records I would be very grateful, and of course I would reimburse you for any costs. I have contacted the Presbyterian Society and other Pres. Churches in and around Co. Donegal but none of them have replied, even though their website says they will do some research.
          The info that I have for Andrew & Mary Ann Campbell nee Love, 2 of their sons, James born 1849 Ballyederlan, & George born 1856 North Ireland.
          George & James emigrated from Gravesend London in 1874 on the ship "Dorette".

          Comment


          • Fern,

            I’ll have a look at the church records tomorrow and see what I can find.

            The Presbyterian Historical Society doesn’t do commissioned research. They have a library (with copies of all the church records, plus other relevant sources eg lives of their Ministers etc) but you have to go in person to use them. Their only staff is 1 part-time administrator and she doesn’t have the resources to undertake research.

            As to churches not replying, that’s pretty common in Ireland. They do get a lot of genealogical enquiries and most aren’t resourced (or inclined) to do this type of work. One of the two Donegal town churches has closed anyway which means you were not likely to get a reply there anyway (assuming that was one of the ones you contacted). However they shouldn’t offer to do research if they are no longer able to do so. But that’s life.
            Elwyn

            I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

            Comment


            • Thank you, Elwyn.

              Comment


              • Fern,

                I have sent you a pm with some information.
                Elwyn

                I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Elwyn View Post
                  Anyone needing help with research in Northern Ireland is welcome to contact me for help.

                  Elwyn Soutter
                  Co Antrim
                  Hello Elwyn,
                  I have been doing research on my parents' families from Ireland. My mother was born in Belfast in 1926 to Michael Smyth (1892 Co. Cavan and Frances Beirne, 1896 Boyle, Roscommon). I have found the 1901 Census for my grandmother's family. Her mother Ellen (Brown) was a widow by the time my grandmother, the youngest of 7, was 4 yrs old. In fact, I believe my grandmother's father, James Beirne, Constable w/RIC, died in December of 1896, 4 months after my grandmother was born. After that, I was able to find the 1911 Census which had my great uncle Vincent Beirne living in Belfast in a house with 3 other men, and I believe I saw the census that showed Ellen had also moved to Antrim with three of her daughters, but I did not print it out and somehow lost it and cannot seem to find it again. I did find the military records for my 2 great uncles who joined the Australian military for WWI. On both of their enlistment papers they have recorded their mother Ellen living in Belfast on Wellwood St. My Great Uncle John Beirne joined the Australian Army at the age of 29, after resigning from the Connaught Rangers. So, I guess right now I need help finding the documentation that shows my grandmother Ellen Beirne and her mother living in Belfast after 1901 (Although her two sons may have moved out). I'd also be interested in learning the path that my great Uncle John Michael Beirne took. Lastly, I cannot find the record of my grandparents marriage. I do know they met somehow and lived in Belfast where my mother was born and baptized -- at St. Malachy's. I also have the passenger list with my grandmother and mom coming to the US in 1928 that has their Belfast address on it. For what it's worth, my grandfather from Cavan, Michael Smyth, was also an ex-RIC when he came over to the U.S.
                  So, the James and Ellen Beirne family moved from Boyle, Roscommon to Belfast after James died, and after 1901, but I cannot find record of it.
                  Many thanks for whatever help you can give.

                  Comment


                  • Oops, I meant to say : So, I guess right now I need help finding the documentation that shows my grandmother and Frances her mother Ellen Beirne living in Belfast after 1901

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kathleenjos View Post
                      Hello Elwyn,
                      I have been doing research on my parents' families from Ireland. My mother was born in Belfast in 1926 to Michael Smyth (1892 Co. Cavan and Frances Beirne, 1896 Boyle, Roscommon). I have found the 1901 Census for my grandmother's family. Her mother Ellen (Brown) was a widow by the time my grandmother, the youngest of 7, was 4 yrs old. In fact, I believe my grandmother's father, James Beirne, Constable w/RIC, died in December of 1896, 4 months after my grandmother was born. After that, I was able to find the 1911 Census which had my great uncle Vincent Beirne living in Belfast in a house with 3 other men, and I believe I saw the census that showed Ellen had also moved to Antrim with three of her daughters, but I did not print it out and somehow lost it and cannot seem to find it again. I did find the military records for my 2 great uncles who joined the Australian military for WWI. On both of their enlistment papers they have recorded their mother Ellen living in Belfast on Wellwood St. My Great Uncle John Beirne joined the Australian Army at the age of 29, after resigning from the Connaught Rangers. So, I guess right now I need help finding the documentation that shows my grandmother Ellen Beirne and her mother living in Belfast after 1901 (Although her two sons may have moved out). I'd also be interested in learning the path that my great Uncle John Michael Beirne took. Lastly, I cannot find the record of my grandparents marriage. I do know they met somehow and lived in Belfast where my mother was born and baptized -- at St. Malachy's. I also have the passenger list with my grandmother and mom coming to the US in 1928 that has their Belfast address on it. For what it's worth, my grandfather from Cavan, Michael Smyth, was also an ex-RIC when he came over to the U.S.
                      So, the James and Ellen Beirne family moved from Boyle, Roscommon to Belfast after James died, and after 1901, but I cannot find record of it.
                      Many thanks for whatever help you can give.
                      The marriage between Michael Smyth and Frances Beirne was registered in Belfast on 28.4.1925. You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

                      https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

                      You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

                      If you are interested in the service records of James Beirne and Michael Smyth, you can purchase them from the police museum in Belfast. There’s a £25 fee per record. See:

                      http://www.psni.police.uk/index/abou..._genealogy.htm

                      Alternatively I can get copies from PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast for a bit less than the PSNI fee.

                      I assume this is Ellen Beirne in 1901:

                      http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...treet/1657202/


                      This looks to be her in 1911:

                      http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...Street/158902/


                      Possible death for James Beirne regd Boyle Oct – Dec 1896 Volume 4, page 51.

                      1918 street directory for Wellwood St lists Agnes Bierne (sic) at no 6. See:
                      http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/wyzcomplete1918.htm
                      Was Ellen dead?

                      I had a look for John Beirne’s military records with the Connaught Rangers but failed to find it. You might need a specialist on military records to help you with that line of enquiry.
                      Elwyn

                      I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                      Comment


                      • McMULLEN'S OF BELFAST

                        Hi Elwyn - I have been researching my McMullen family in Belfast for some time. They are Patrick b.1814 and wife Sarah Ann Walsh b.1806. I had them down with 4 children, William b.1839, Sarah Ann b.1833, John Bartholomew b. 1841 and Patrick b.1843. I have recently discovered another child Mary b.1836 and suspect there may be others undiscovered. I wonder if Mary and possible other children died early as I haven't come across her name before but can't find a definite death record for her. I'm also searching for Patrick's father who I believe was John Patrick McMullen b.1783 although I have no definite documentation for him and who his mother was. The family were baptised and married in St Patrick's RC church Belfast and I have them down in the diocese of Down & Connor. Any further information would be greatly appreciated.

                        Comment


                        • Statutory death registration didn’t start in Ireland till 1864 so any deaths before that will be difficult to trace. (The RC church did not routinely keep burial records either). Unless there’s a gravestone somewhere – which is fairly unlikely unless the family were comparatively well off - you are unlikely to find any record of the deaths or burials.

                          The RC baptism records are on-line on the NLI site and fmp and ancestry. I assume you have been through them.

                          St Patrick’s has the oldest set of RC records in Belfast. They start in 1798, so you won’t find any baptisms or other events before that. (St Mary’s was the first RC chapel in Belfast and opened in 1784 but they don’t have any records until 1867). There were very few RC people in Belfast in the late 1700s (one estimate I read said about 300). However the arrival of new industries started to create a lot of employment from around 1800 onwards. (Shipbuilding began in 1793 for example). Huge numbers of Catholics then moved to Belfast, mainly from the west of Ulster, looking for work.

                          So whilst there are no RC church records in Belfast to search for John Patrick McMullen c1783, I’d say there’s a strong likelihood he wasn’t born there anyway. You are really up against the 1800 wall at which most Irish research comes to a standstill for lack of records.
                          Elwyn

                          I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                          Comment


                          • Thanks for trying Elwyn. Yes, I had already searched the NLI, FMP and Ancestry sites and spent hours trying to read the handwriting on St Parick's online records! It looks like I've hit the brick wall but thanks for the suggestions anyway.

                            Comment


                            • Hi Elwyn - thanks for the offer to help. I'm new to researching family trees and I've hit a brick wall already...I'm researching my partners family and I'm slightly embarrassed to say that I'm stuck on his dad!

                              I don't have much information as he never knew him but I do know that his name is/was Leslie Allan Norris and was born in Londonderry around 1947. He had 4 siblings, 2 of which were called Norah and Edward. He was part of the military which took him to London where he met my partners mum. I've tried searching for him and the siblings but can't find anything. Any help would be massively appreciated

                              Comment


                              • Louloudoc,

                                Records of births within the last 100 years in Northern Ireland are not on-line anywhere. (Data Protection based rules). To find a birth cert for someone born c 1947 you have some options:

                                1. Go in person to GRONI in Belfast (who keep the records), and search yourself,
                                2. Pay GRONI to search for you. (Contact them for the fees).
                                3. I can do that search for you. If so, send me a PM and we can discuss what you need.
                                Last edited by Elwyn; 27-04-16, 19:11.
                                Elwyn

                                I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                Comment


                                • Hello Elwyn! Thanks so much for your kind offer! I have read the responses to the other threads and I do understand that finding an answer to my question might be difficult because of destruction of census records by fire, government, etc.

                                  I am looking for more information on my great-great-great grandparents William Wallace (b. about 1798 in Dromara, recorded as Dromora which I don't think exists?) and Nancey Graham (b. about 1797 in Ballymena, d. 1881, Ballymena). They married in 1821, possibly in Ballymena.

                                  The 1851 Census (County: Antrim, Barony: Kilconway, Townland: Magheraboy, Parish: Dunaghy) indicates 7 children: Margaret (b. 1827), Marey (b. 1829), Jane (b. 1831), my ancestor John (b. 1833), William (b. 1835), James (b. 1838), Elizabeth (b. 1842). However, long-time family sources (no proof) indicate 3 other children born before Margaret: Joseph, Sarah and Robert. This makes sense to me as the records I have indicate that there were 6 years before the birth of their first child, yet they seemed relatively consistent with births after those 6 years so possibly had other children within those 6 years. Very conceivable that they might not have been living with their parents on the night of the census, possibly married or? Where might I find any records of the births of Joseph, Sarah and Robert?

                                  What I am really looking for, however, is the ancestors/families/siblings/other children of William and Nancey.....we have no information and can not trace the Wallaces or Grahams back farther than their birthdays.

                                  Also, looking at the information contained in the census, I see that William is listed as a farmer but almost all of the children are listed as linen weavers and spool winders. This indicates to me that someone (possibly Nancey) brought these skills in to the family. Could Nancey have come from a Houston family that were weavers?

                                  I am also looking for information on Margaret Houston (b.1831 Antrim) who married the above ancestor John Wallace, son of Nancey Graham and William Wallace.

                                  Thanks so much for any information you can find for me....or any hints you can give me on how to proceed further. I am on ancestry.com and a couple of other sites but what else can I do? Of course, I would welcome a lovely visit to Ireland!

                                  Thank you, Elwyn!

                                  Comment


                                  • Sorry, Elwyn, I meant "Could Nancey have come from a Graham family that were weavers?", not "Could Nancey have come from a Houston family that were weavers?" Thanks!

                                    Comment


                                    • Please can you help

                                      Originally posted by Elwyn View Post
                                      Anyone needing help with research in Northern Ireland is welcome to contact me for help.

                                      Elwyn Soutter
                                      Co Antrim
                                      I have been tracing my dads family tree I traced my great great grandparents William and Eliza Thomson nee McCann to their wedding 2rd August in 1855 in Armagh Ireland I have the births of all their children William, John, James, Joseph and Catherine and the marriages and deaths of some of them. But what I want to know is when William and Eliza (Elizabeth) where born and died their parents. I know from one of their son John Thomson marriage certificate William Thomson was deceased in 1882 and from the son John Thomson death certificate of 1906 it doesn't mention his mum as deceased so I guess she was still alive in 1906. I have searched and searched different websites with no success I cannot find nothing. The reason put Elizabeth as on some certificates she is Eliza but on others she is written as Elizabeth. Is there anyway you could help me please?

                                      Thank you

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by shell777 View Post
                                        I have been tracing my dads family tree I traced my great great grandparents William and Eliza Thomson nee McCann to their wedding 2rd August in 1855 in Armagh Ireland I have the births of all their children William, John, James, Joseph and Catherine and the marriages and deaths of some of them. But what I want to know is when William and Eliza (Elizabeth) where born and died their parents. I know from one of their son John Thomson marriage certificate William Thomson was deceased in 1882 and from the son John Thomson death certificate of 1906 it doesn't mention his mum as deceased so I guess she was still alive in 1906. I have searched and searched different websites with no success I cannot find nothing. The reason put Elizabeth as on some certificates she is Eliza but on others she is written as Elizabeth. Is there anyway you could help me please?

                                        Thank you
                                        What parish did the marriage take place in, and what denomination? (I have had a look at the on-line civil & RC records and don’t see the marriage listed, which is why I ask).

                                        What was William’s occupation as per the various certificates?

                                        Did the information about the death of William by 1882 and Eliza still being alive come from Scottish certificates? (If it did, that’s quite good as they are generally accurate).
                                        Elwyn

                                        I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by shemac View Post
                                          Hello Elwyn! Thanks so much for your kind offer! I have read the responses to the other threads and I do understand that finding an answer to my question might be difficult because of destruction of census records by fire, government, etc.

                                          I am looking for more information on my great-great-great grandparents William Wallace (b. about 1798 in Dromara, recorded as Dromora which I don't think exists?) and Nancey Graham (b. about 1797 in Ballymena, d. 1881, Ballymena). They married in 1821, possibly in Ballymena.

                                          The 1851 Census (County: Antrim, Barony: Kilconway, Townland: Magheraboy, Parish: Dunaghy) indicates 7 children: Margaret (b. 1827), Marey (b. 1829), Jane (b. 1831), my ancestor John (b. 1833), William (b. 1835), James (b. 1838), Elizabeth (b. 1842). However, long-time family sources (no proof) indicate 3 other children born before Margaret: Joseph, Sarah and Robert. This makes sense to me as the records I have indicate that there were 6 years before the birth of their first child, yet they seemed relatively consistent with births after those 6 years so possibly had other children within those 6 years. Very conceivable that they might not have been living with their parents on the night of the census, possibly married or? Where might I find any records of the births of Joseph, Sarah and Robert?

                                          What I am really looking for, however, is the ancestors/families/siblings/other children of William and Nancey.....we have no information and can not trace the Wallaces or Grahams back farther than their birthdays.

                                          Also, looking at the information contained in the census, I see that William is listed as a farmer but almost all of the children are listed as linen weavers and spool winders. This indicates to me that someone (possibly Nancey) brought these skills in to the family. Could Nancey have come from a Houston family that were weavers?

                                          I am also looking for information on Margaret Houston (b.1831 Antrim) who married the above ancestor John Wallace, son of Nancey Graham and William Wallace.

                                          Thanks so much for any information you can find for me....or any hints you can give me on how to proceed further. I am on ancestry.com and a couple of other sites but what else can I do? Of course, I would welcome a lovely visit to Ireland!

                                          Thank you, Elwyn!
                                          Shemac,

                                          Sorry I overlooked your enquiry in August and have only spotted now as a result of someone else’s enquiry.

                                          Not sure about your Dromara/Dromora. There’s a place in Co Down called Dromara but your family evidently come from Co Antrim so not quite sure what the name of this townland could be. Possibly Drumramer as there were Wallace families there.

                                          Regarding the year that William & Nancy married, I have access to a version of the census that says they married in 1821:

                                          http://www.irishgenealogy.net/forum/...php?f=34&t=453

                                          Notice also that there was another Wallace household next door. So likely to be a relation. Going by the 1901 census for the townland they were Presbyterian. So they probably attended church in either Clough, Cloughwater or Newtown Crommelin.

                                          There are number of Wallaces from Magheraboy buried in Clough graveyard. No sign of William or Nancy but there are others. (I can let you have details if interested).

                                          Unfortunately Clough Presbyterian church has no records before1865. (Earlier records were lost in a fire). Cloughwater Presbyterian has no records before 1852 and Newtowncrommelin only has records from 1835. So none of these sets of records is going to record either the couples marriage or the baptisms of any children in the early 1820. You will struggle to get any further back with your research because so few records exist.

                                          There looks to have been Wallaces farming in Magheraboy in the 1950s. Have you been in touch with them?

                                          Regarding acquiring weaving skills, everyone in Co Antrim wove. It wouldn’t have been a skill specially imported, it was as normal as milking a cow. Everyone could do it. It brought in a bit of extra money, and provided employment in the winter months when the farm was quiet. Most farms grew some flax (the raw ingredient of linen) and then the families would process it, and turn it into cloth. Retting, spinning and then weaving. The cloth would then have been sold at Ballymena market.

                                          The marriage between John Wallace and Margareta Houston was registered in Ballymena on 31.10.1851. You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

                                          https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

                                          You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.
                                          Elwyn

                                          I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                          Comment

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