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  • Jeff,

    I think you may have posted this on the wrong thread. Your message to Rach doesn't appear to be related to anything on this one, and I suspect she won't see it. You probably need to re-post it on the right thread.
    Elwyn

    I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

    Comment


    • Hi Elwyn

      I don't have much information to go on. James Green coastguard was born in Larne in c1809 .
      He was not a catholic. Had a daughter Ann J Green Belfast c1836 mother Ann Perkins born Porlock WeirSomerset He died in Poole 1893

      His father was a boatman who often crossed to Porlock Weir from Larne


      Thanks so much for any possible help

      Nicky

      Comment


      • Nicky,

        Statutory birth registration didn’t start in Ireland till 1864 and marriage registration started in 1845. So for both the births and the marriage you are looking for, you are dependent on church records. Not all church records for these years survive and of those that do, not all are on-line.

        You say that James was not Catholic. The main denominations in Larne would be Presbyterian and Church of Ireland. Unfortunately neither of the two Presbyterian churches in the town has any baptism records for 1809. (Records have been lost). The Church of Ireland does however have baptisms records (they start in 1806). So you could check them. They are not on-line.

        There are numerous churches in Belfast. Again many of their records are not on-line. However the largest Church of Ireland parish is Shankill, and their records are on-line. Rootsireland (a subscription site) has those records, and searching their index for Ann Green born c 1836 with father James gets two matches. However if I put in Ann Perkins as the mother, I don’t get a match. So maybe it’s not your Ann. But you might want to check. (You do get transcription errors on those pay to view sites, and sometimes that can be why you aren’t getting a match).

        I also searched for the Green – Perkins marriage on that site, but without success. I assume Ann Perkins was C of E in which case you would expect them to have married in the Church of Ireland. No matches but it could be that they married in a church whose records are not on-line.

        Copies of most surviving records, including those for Larne Church of Ireland, are kept in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast, but a personal visit is generally required to access them.

        Though most Irish censuses pre 1901 have been destroyed, a few fragments survive. One of those fragments is the 1851 census for Larne. There weren’t many Green families listed but I see one with a John Green who married in 1812, who was an auctioneer, and a Jane Green who married in 1798. See:

        http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie

        I assume you have James careers details from this site:

        http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Coastguards/F-G.html

        So you probably need a trip to PRONI to search the church records (or I can do it for you if you want).
        Last edited by Elwyn; 23-02-15, 19:34.
        Elwyn

        I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

        Comment


        • Thank you Elwyn will reply tomorrow. I have typed a reply 3 times and just isn't posting!

          Comment


          • Sorry I should have said James and Ann married in Bude Cornwall in 1838. C of E


            all the information I have about him as a coastguard is from the 1841 uk census onwards. I only know he was in Belfast becAuse Ann J's place of birth is always down as Belfast.
            I do not know the area at all and do not know if there was more than one coastguard /preventive service station in Belfast.

            I am sure that somewhere I have a copy of a letter written by my great uncle, James' grandson in the 1960's.
            I think I will need to hunt for it.....It's sometime since I did any research and the first time I have tried to find out about the Irish connections.
            There may be some for information I've forgotten about.
            Seeing your offer has inspired me to start again.
            Hopefully I will find some more i formation to go on.

            Thanks Nicky
            .

            Comment


            • OK I’ll wait to hear from you. As far as coastguard stations are concerned, Larne is about 20 miles from Belfast. I would expect there would have been separate staff for those two locations, and there would have been others stationed along the cost at various points.
              Elwyn

              I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

              Comment


              • Elwyn - Do you know anything about the Fishmongers business in Londonderry - or more specifically, in Tamlaght Finlagan? I'm tracing some of my people there, and their occupation is Fisherman. I know that Fishmongers had property there (at TF), and I know there was some sort of property rental. Would they have been renting dock or storage space to fisherman, and their catch could have been taken all the way back to London?
                Thanks
                Sarah
                ------------------------------------------------------
                My Families
                London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

                Comment


                • Sarah,

                  During the Plantation of Ulster (early 1600s)the King decided to use the London Livery companies to organise and develop the county. So, in return for building public buildings, roads, places of refuge, etc they got allocations of land (that had been seized from Irish landowners who had fled in 1606). The Fishmongers were amongst those livery companies, along with Drapers, Haberdashers and other trades. So what the Fishmongers did was put up the venture capital to develop the land. They didn't actually engage in any fishing at all. (At least not so far as I am aware). They then appear as landlords for your family because they owned all the land in that area, rather than because they owned port or fish processing facilities.

                  If your ancestor was a fisherman, I suspect he just worked for himself or with a couple of other local people, much as is still the custom today.
                  Elwyn

                  I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                  Comment


                  • Elwyn - That's very interesting and useful information. I didn't see any indication that they were Company members, but was curious about the possibility.

                    Oh my mother's side, she had Drapers come from Londonderry to the US in the mid-1700s. Interesting possibility there!

                    Thanks again for sharing your expertise
                    sarah
                    ------------------------------------------------------
                    My Families
                    London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

                    Comment


                    • Hi Elwyn,
                      This is a baptism record for my great-grandmother, Clara Dyer.
                      https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5SM-5D7

                      Do you know if the number 293 in
                      Christening Place: 293, BALLYMACARRETT, DOWN,
                      correlates to a specific church? Any pointers would be useful for next time I am over in PRONI to see if I can find further Dyer baptism, marriage and burial records for her siblings in the same place.
                      As always, thanks in advance for your help.

                      Christine

                      PS I can't account for the green face in the middle of the hyperlink but it doesn't seem to prevent the link working!
                      Last edited by Karamazov; 10-05-15, 11:43.
                      Researching:
                      HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                      Comment


                      • Christine,

                        The number is allocated by LDS. You would probably need to order the film in from them to find out for certain which church it refers to but it’s evidently the parish of Ballymacarrett..

                        So in PRONI, I would try Ballymacarrett Church of Ireland MIC583/4; Knockbreda COI MIC 1/57, failing which 1st Ballymacarrett Presbyterian MIC1P/15 or Ballymacarrett RC MIC1D/65. (If you know the denomination you may not need to try them all).
                        Elwyn

                        I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                        Comment


                        • Hello Elwyn

                          You helped me with some advice re Wray and once again I thank you for that. I knew many records had been destroyed during world wars/ domestic troubles and also that for various reasons a couple of censuses hadn't been taken after 1922 but I wasn't aware until recently just how extensively detstructive it has been going and that records going back to medieval times have been lost Just awful from a history point of view far less genealogically.

                          I had said I may come back to you to see if you could help me with the family of Shelburn Kincaid/Jane Moore. I wonder if you could please? I'm trying to find marriages or deaths for any of their children excluding my Gt. Granny Rebecca and her brother William. I think he came to Scotland (Glasgow) and married RoseAnne Bone in Glasgow and I've narrowed down Rebecca's from her sons' "Soldier Effects" entries. It may be that some of her siblings also settled in Glasgow but I haven't been able to track anyone else so I thought I'd try and find if they stayed in Ireland.

                          I'm looking for information on: Samuel Kincaid baptised 18.01.1856 in Ballyboedooish Townland (think he may have married a Mary McIlhenny)
                          Robert Kincaid " 11.11.1861 in Moneymore, Co. Londonderry
                          Jane Kincaid born 15.05.1865 in " " ( think she married John Keilty--not quite legible(Soldier Effects Records of
                          Charles Henry Wray MM and Pvt. John Wray though in the latter's records he is down as a brother in law to John and not his Uncle.)
                          John James Kincaid baptised Killea, Manorcunningham, Co. Donegal
                          Margaret Ann Kincaid c. 20.10.1873 baptised Killea etc.

                          Any information that could be found would be very much appreciated. Many thanks for your time once again.

                          Kind regards
                          Maggie Wray



                          Comment


                          • Maggie,

                            I have struggled a bit with some of this information. I can’t find anywhere called Ballyboedooish. Ballyboe is common enough (being a land measurement) but I can’t find anywhere with the dooish suffix. However I did find what might be a marriage for Samuel Kincaid to Mary McIlhenny, registered in Londonderry July – Sept 1883 Vol 2, page 191.

                            Couldn’t find anything on Robert Kincaid. There are quite a few possible marriages. You would need to order them all up to see if any is for your man.

                            I could not find a birth in the statutory records (which start in 1864) for Jane Kincaid in 1865 anywhere in what is now Northern Ireland. I looked for a marriage to a John Keilty or Kielty but did not see one.

                            You don’t give a year of birth for John James Kincaid but I can’t find anywhere in Donegal called Killea. (Manorcunningham does exist and is in the Letterkenny civil registration area).

                            I did not find a Margaret Ann Kincaid birth in the Letterkenny area in 1873 but there is one nearby in Londonderry (1873 Vol 17 page 232).

                            There are marriages 20 or so years later for people of those names, across Ireland, but I have no easy way of saying whether any might be yours.

                            You can order a photocopy of the marriage and birth certificates from GRO Roscommon for €4 (euros). http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply...tificates.aspx

                            You have to download and print off the form. Then either post or fax it back to them. You can’t e-mail it to them. However if you want them to e-mail the cert to back to you, they will do that, so tick the relevant box.

                            Put the reference details on the form (anywhere). Don’t worry about leaving some boxes blank. As long as GRO have the location, name(s), year, quarter (where there is one), volume and page number they should find it.

                            Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church which should be on the marriage certificate, (unless it was a Registry Office marriage). That church may be the place to look for her baptism and that of any siblings.

                            I looked for these people in the 1901 census but did not see any obvious matches.
                            Elwyn

                            I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                            Comment


                            • Hello Elwyn

                              Thank you very much. Through looking at Shelburn Kincaids' marriage/death certificate (I purchased them from GRO Roscommon a while back) I saw Manorcunningham as the Registration District for his death and after a wee bit research I wrote to Ramochy Parish Church, Manorcunningham. They passed my letter to the Raymochy ParishesHistorical Society and a very helpful man Mr. M. Meehan in turn spoke to a Mr. McKinley the Clerk of Sessions at Ray Prebyterian Church who checked his registers and gave me the information which I had been hoping I'd perhaps be able to expand on with your help.

                              Ballyboedooish it seems is in the Parish of Raymochy (given as place of residence on his marriage cert). Given your description of Ballyboe perhaps I should just be looking at Dooish as I know there is some Wray connections there but not seen anything for Kincaid. Having the meaning of words like this one helps me understand things a bit more so thank you very much for that.

                              I'll buy the Samuel Kincaid certificate and see what is on it that might/might not help.

                              Re: Robert Kincaid I had an inkling that this might be one where a bit further digging would be needed e.g. I'll try and find out if I can get a middle name to narrow the Robert down. It's now on my "to do" list.

                              Re: Jane Kincaid- I thought it'd be easy for me to find a marriage but I couldn't either. The information I have from LDS site is she was b. 15.05.1865. Killea, Donegal, Ireland. I think Killea is a Londonderry Registration District. 0241 preceded the birthplace details and I understand from your post to another member that this is an LDS no. Jane is named as a beneficiary on her nephews' "Soldier Effects" records as being Mrs Jane Kielty (guardian of nieces) and was awarded a sum "for the children of her deceased sister Rebecca" (my Gt. Granny). This was on 5th February 1918. so that narrows my Gt. Granny's death date down which I can look into further. I only came about these "Soldier Effect" records in the past week or so. John Kielty is mentioned in John Wray's "Soldier Effects" in February 1917. It does state though that he was JW's brother in law but actually as Jane is Rebecca's sister then he would have been his uncle in law. I'll keep digging there and see if I can come across anything else that might help.

                              Re: John James Kincaid he was born on 09.04.1968 again the LDS gives Killea as his birthplace and Raymochy Parish records show his baptism was "
                              registered as being in the Maillen pronounced the Mail in. I think the Maillen is an Ulster Scot word for a district, I think it is near Drumbarnett". The part in " " is from the note I received from Mr. Meehan.

                              Re: Margaret Ann Kincaid- I'll order that certificate from the information you gave.

                              It seems that Jane & John James are going to be a bit more difficult than I thought. As you said the certificates help but it's a vicious circle if you can't narrow it down and could spend loads of money buying wrong certificates. Ah well nose to the grindstone again and if they don't turn up in Ireland I'll see what I can turn up in Glasgow. Reading the above it seems I have already got a fair bit of information but the snag is its not leading me very far.

                              All the best and once again thanks for all your help,
                              Maggie

                              Comment


                              • Hi Elwyn

                                John James was born in 1868 not 1968....oops. thanks
                                Maggie

                                Comment


                                • Maggie,

                                  You can see a list of all the standardized townland names on this site:

                                  http://www.thecore.com/seanruad/

                                  Many townlands used to have several names (and a few still do) but they were largely standardized around the time of Griffiths Valuation. Indeed his clerks may well have contributed to that task. But you still do get bits of a townland with a separate name. You would really need to ask someone in the Raymoghy area if the name means anything to them. You might find it does. (I have seen other name places in baptism records that don’t show on the seanruad list, and it’s obviously a local name that remained in local use, even though the townland was generally known by some other name).

                                  Regarding the Jane Kincaid birth, you could order the LDS microfilm into your local LDS library. The film number is 101,106. (There is a small fee for that service). You could then find out from it where the event took place. The collection that it’s taken from (Births & Baptisms 1620 – 1881 is largely compiled from church records. So the baptism may have been in a different location to the birth).

                                  There’s a Jane Kincaid birth registered in Londonderry 1865 Vol 7, page 241 that might be worth checking out. Get a copy from GRO Roscommon as its not on the GRONI site, probably because they separated the Donegal records from the Co Derry records after partition in 1922.

                                  Shelburn Kincade’s marriage to Jane Moore was registered in Strabane in 1851 Vol 10, page 309. I assume you have it. (Like Londonderry, Strabane’s registration area also included part of Co Donegal).

                                  Maillen is probably Maylin which is a townland in Raymoghy. Maylin and Drumbarnet (Lower, Middle & Upper) all fell within the Londonderry civil registration area, till 1922. Thereafter Letterkenny. They are all very close to each other.

                                  Here’s Maylin in 1911: http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...ingham/Maylin/

                                  Drumbarnett in 19111:

                                  http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...mbarnet_Lower/
                                  http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...barnet_Middle/
                                  http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...mbarnet_Upper/
                                  Last edited by Elwyn; 06-08-15, 12:47.
                                  Elwyn

                                  I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • Thank you Elwyn. Your reply helps a lot.

                                    Having the Townland/Districts proper makes life so much easier and even if nothing is found it means that places can be taken off your search list so you're not going over and over the same ground in the same place without realising you're doing so.

                                    I didn't know I could order the LDS microfilms to a library here so I have emailed LDS to see how I go about that and hopefully once I see them hopefully it will narrow things down further.

                                    Your and your colleagues on this forum give us researchers of Irish ancestors invaluable help and insight and no doubt once I've got all this new information I'll be in touch to ask questions. Thank you for the links.

                                    All the best
                                    Maggie

                                    Comment


                                    • Hello Elwyn,

                                      I send you an email a few days ago, however, I think I sent it to the wrong place.
                                      Regarding/My GMothers marriage: Lizzie (Eliza Jane) Evans, to Charles Smart.
                                      Please advise if you did receive, if not, I shall resend.
                                      Thank you.

                                      Joan Bourgeois

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Fern View Post
                                        Hi Elwyn. I'd like to take you up on your very kind offer. My g/grandfather James Campbell, son of Andrew & MaryAnn , nee Grove, born 1849 in Ballyderlan, (Ballyederlan) Co.Donegal. I've been searching for some time looking for the area Ballyderlan, as written on James' marriage certificate but with no success. (He & his brother George emigrated to New Zealand in 1874. ) On his death certificate his place of residence was listed as Belfast. Campbell is a common name which makes the search that more difficult.
                                        James & George were listed (immigration form) as agriculture labourers, so I'm thinking their father Andrew may have been a tenant farmer. Can find no record of him owning any land.
                                        I've checked the census available, Griffiths valuations, Tithe Applotment books etc. with no luck.
                                        I believe they were Presbyterians. I did email a couple of churches in the area hoping that their name/s may appear in marriage/birth/death records, but didn't receive a reply. I guess they get a lot of queries.
                                        Any info that may give a hint of their lives or the area Balleyderlan, would be much appreciated.
                                        Many thanks

                                        An update, after getting the death record of son George, where the writing was far more legible, I found that their mother's surname was Love not Grove as originally thought. It also stated that George was born North Ireland.(probably Northern Ireland).
                                        Not surprising then that I couldn't find any info. Just maybe I might get somewhere this time round.!

                                        Comment


                                        • Joan,

                                          I didn't receive your message. Please re-send.

                                          Elwyn
                                          Elwyn

                                          I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                          Comment

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