Research in Northern Ireland

[ginacoco]

Manley/Munnely research

Anyone needing help with research in Northern Ireland is welcome to contact me for help.

Elwyn Soutter
Co Antrim

Hi there!

I am tracing a tree I belong to: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/68759...id=30185653935

My common ancestor (per DNA testing) is likely Michael Manley/Munnelly or his wife, Bridgette Higgins. They went to Canada and then immigrated to the US. I am confident in all of their children except Mary and really need to find Michael and Bridgette's siblings. They could have stayed in Ireland or immigrated, I have no idea and immigration records seem to be hard to come by. Any recommendations/help would be greatly appreciated!!!

[Elwyn]

It’s not easy researching families in Ireland at the early 1800s. Very few records exist. Do you have any information on where in Limerick Michael and Bridgette originated? Only a handful of parishes have baptisms records for that period, but if you knew where they came from it might be possible to check.

[ginacoco]

Hi Elwyn,

I would very much like to take you up on your very kind offer.

I have three branches that I am interested in:

William John Dargan (Farmer) married Margaret Maguire sometime around 1833 possibly in Moira County Down Ireland.
They had at least 2 children Mary Dargan b abt 1833 in Moira and James Dargan b September 8, 1838 also in Moira. James Dargan joined the Marist Brotherhood.

The other branch is John Munnelly occupation Tailor father of John Munnelly b abt 1896 in County Mayo. The son John moved to Newcastle upon Tyne and married there on September 11, 1920.

Lastly, Hugh Callaghan (Farmer/Agriculturist) married Mary? sometime around 1828 and had the following children:
Michael Callaghan born Abt. 1828
Hugh Callaghan born Abt. 1829
Joseph Patrick Callaghan born Abt. 1833
Edward Callaghan born Abt. 1839
All of the sons moved to Newcastle upon Tyne before 1856 by which time their father Hugh Callaghan was dead.


Not a lot to go on but any help would be gratefully received.

Ian

I am looking for the Munnellys of Mayo too. Mine is Michael Munnelly (born around 1815, married to Bridgette Higgins, immigrated to Canada and then to the US). Any connection?

[ginacoco]

Manley/Munnely research

It’s not easy researching families in Ireland at the early 1800s. Very few records exist. Do you have any information on where in Limerick Michael and Bridgette originated? Only a handful of parishes have baptisms records for that period, but if you knew where they came from it might be possible to check.

My understanding of the land is very limited at this point. I do know the family is from Mayo. Does that help narrow it down?

[Elwyn]

Rootsireland has a marriage for a William John Durgan to a Margaret in 1830 in Co Down. (Pay to view) Might be the marriage you are looking for that couple. It doesn’t appear to be in the RC parish of Magheralinn (which includes Moira) so possibly the bride came from another parish.

It might pay you to search the Magheralinn baptism records for Mary Dargan as well as any other siblings. There’s a copy in PRONI in Belfast as well as the National Library in Dublin. Unusually for an RC parish, there are also burial records 1815 – 1890.

Death registration started in Ireland in 1864. I searched for Wm John Dargan’s death 1864 to 1901, regd in Lurgan but did not see one listed. Suspect therefore he may have died before 1864. Likewise did not find a death for Margaret.

I searched the 1901 census for Dargan households in the Moira area. There was only one, which I notice contained a young William John. I wonder if this might be connected to your family. They are listed in the townland in Griffiths in 1864 when the head of household was James Dargan.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Moira/Kilminioge/1243152/

This could be your Munnelly family in Church St, Crossmolina, Co. Mayo:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Crossmolina_North/Church_Street/1574084/

and in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Crossmolina_North/Crossmolina/701797/

I suspect John’s mother was Brigid M’Nulty and she married Apr – Jun 1889 (Ballina, Vol 4, page 11) but you would need to get a copy of the cert to check that.

I don’t think I can help locate the Callaghan family without more information. I assume you have looked for the marriage and baptisms on the rootsireland site? Not all parish records go back to the 1820s and so it can be very difficult.

[ginacoco]

Elwyn,

Thank you for the information. I am guessing this is from my family, but not the direct line. It may be Michael's brother, though I don't have a list of his siblings yet (and I am not sure how to isolate which direct family he is from). Michael and Bridgette Manley/Munnelly went to Ontario Canada around 1840 and then to the US a few years later. Are there any older census records? With families like these, how does one isolate which "Michael" they have? Anything other than DOBs??? Is there a way to get all the Munnellys for Mayo and see if there are that many or if we can rule out much of them?

[PhotoFamily]

Hi, Elwyn -
I need some help with geography!

I have the transcription of civil reg of a marriage in 1871 (from RootsIreland). County Donegal; Parish/District is listed as "Gleneely"; The bride's address is " Distern Glenely"

Can you help me find where this is? I've tried googling briefly...

Thanks!
Sarah

[Elwyn]

Hi, Elwyn -
I need some help with geography!

I have the transcription of civil reg of a marriage in 1871 (from RootsIreland). County Donegal; Parish/District is listed as "Gleneely"; The bride's address is " Distern Glenely"

Can you help me find where this is? I've tried googling briefly...

Thanks!
Sarah

I suspect it’s Dristernan (508 acres). Here are the occupants in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Gleneely/Dristernan/

It’s in the civil parish of Culdaff, on the Inishowen peninsula, on the R238 about half way between Moville and Carndonagh. You can find it on Griffiths Valuation maps but you probably won’t find it on Google. It’s too small.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

[Elwyn]

Elwyn,

Thank you for the information. I am guessing this is from my family, but not the direct line. It may be Michael's brother, though I don't have a list of his siblings yet (and I am not sure how to isolate which direct family he is from). Michael and Bridgette Manley/Munnelly went to Ontario Canada around 1840 and then to the US a few years later. Are there any older census records? With families like these, how does one isolate which "Michael" they have? Anything other than DOBs??? Is there a way to get all the Munnellys for Mayo and see if there are that many or if we can rule out much of them?

You may struggle to prove a link between the two families due to the early period you are looking at. There are so few records to refer to. There are no censuses for Mayo earlier than 1901 (They were destroyed). The Crossmolina RC parish records only start in 1831 and so you won’t find the baptism of someone born c 1815.

You can count how many Munnellys there were in Mayo in the 1901 census. That’s easy. There were 467 (the spelling varies a bit. You need to include Munnelley too).

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

By the way you mention using dates of birth as means of eliminating people. A word of caution. People didn’t celebrate birthdays in Ireland in the 1800s and most people didn’t really know when they were born, so the dates tend to be a bit unreliable. (A documented RC baptism would normally be fairly reliable since it would be within a few days of the birth, but otherwise dates of birth volunteered by Irish people at that period tend to be fairly unreliable. Just a guess to please the authorities).

[PhotoFamily]

I suspect it’s Dristernan (508 acres). Here are the occupants in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Gleneely/Dristernan/

It’s in the civil parish of Culdaff, on the Inishowen peninsula, on the R238 about half way between Moville and Carndonagh. You can find it on Griffiths Valuation maps but you probably won’t find it on Google. It’s too small.


http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffi...on=placeSearch

Hi, Elwyn -
Nothing certain, but at least there are people with the right surname there. Where would the Church of Ireland's Church have been located for this parish? Do the parish records still exist? Have they been transcribed? More for my Christmas wish list!

[Karamazov]

Hi Elwyn
Hope you can help with this general enquiry - I've found a newspaper report for someone in my tree in which he is referred to as a Peace Commissioner. This is in Ballyshannon, Co Donegal in 1930. What would this role have entailed? Would it have been a full time paid occupation?
Thanks,
Christine

[Kmurrin]

Elwyn,

Ive written to you not too long ago reference my paternal side ( Patrick Murrin) from donegal county, however Im still attmepting to locate a parish or parent name to narrow down the search...His wife, however we learned,also from Ireland, was Marria Ryan. What we discovered about her family is that She was one of 9 children. We were albe to locate 2 other sibblings, both older than her,here in America..... a Catherine Ryan 18feb1836, edward ryan 24mar1844, and our Maria was born 17mar1847...We found a marriage license of one of the kids, indicates parents were Patrick Ryan & Catherine Glendon..Edward, the son, was born, Ballingarry, Tipperary Ireland...as indicated on his marriage license.....Thru the census here, we find Catherine and Edward arrive inthe USA both in 1854, we assume together...On Maria's census we see her arriving in 1865, all to davenport, Iowa....We dont know any of the other kids names at this time, or if they even came to America...We did find a book given to Patrick Murrin (Maria ryans husband) that was signed , "John Ryan",,,so this could be another Ryan child.......Trying to find any record of them in that location, is this a place in ireland you do research on....Karen Murrin................

[Elwyn]

Hi, Elwyn -
Nothing certain, but at least there are people with the right surname there. Where would the Church of Ireland's Church have been located for this parish? Do the parish records still exist? Have they been transcribed? More for my Christmas wish list!

Not exactly sure where the church is. Presumably in the village of Culdaff. You might need to contact the diocesan office at St Columbs in Derry to confirm. Here’s what records survive. It looks as though the records for much of the 1800s were amongst those destroyed in the 1922 fire in Dublin. (Ironically they had been sent there for safe keeping).
The originals may still be with the church. Otherwise they could be in the RCB library in Dublin. PRONI (the public record office in Belfast) have a copy of the following:
Vestry minutes, 1693-1804; baptisms, 1668-c.1790, with gaps; marriages, 1713-21 and 1770-82; burials, 1714-18.
Baptisms, 1875-1987; marriages, 1845-1921; burials, 1876-1980; vestry minutes, 1858-73 and 1877-1988; register of vestrymen, 1870-1987; preachers’ books, 1879-1991; plan of church, c.1885; account book, 1897-98; notes about the history of the church, 1869- 87.
I don’t think the records are on-line anywhere so a visit to PRONI is your best bet if the dates cover the years you are interested in.

[Elwyn]

Hi Elwyn
Hope you can help with this general enquiry - I've found a newspaper report for someone in my tree in which he is referred to as a Peace Commissioner. This is in Ballyshannon, Co Donegal in 1930. What would this role have entailed? Would it have been a full time paid occupation?
Thanks,
Christine

That’d be the Irish equivalent of what, in the UK, would be a Justice of the Peace (JP). Not sure about the Republic of Ireland but in the UK it’s unpaid, though they might get an honorarium (ie an annual token payment). It’s not full time work, and often just involves a few minutes work a week. Usually given to distinguished members of the community (with no criminal record). See:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/civil_law/peace_commissioners.html

[Elwyn]

Elwyn,

Ive written to you not too long ago reference my paternal side ( Patrick Murrin) from donegal county, however Im still attmepting to locate a parish or parent name to narrow down the search...His wife, however we learned,also from Ireland, was Marria Ryan. What we discovered about her family is that She was one of 9 children. We were albe to locate 2 other sibblings, both older than her,here in America..... a Catherine Ryan 18feb1836, edward ryan 24mar1844, and our Maria was born 17mar1847...We found a marriage license of one of the kids, indicates parents were Patrick Ryan & Catherine Glendon..Edward, the son, was born, Ballingarry, Tipperary Ireland...as indicated on his marriage license.....Thru the census here, we find Catherine and Edward arrive inthe USA both in 1854, we assume together...On Maria's census we see her arriving in 1865, all to davenport, Iowa....We dont know any of the other kids names at this time, or if they even came to America...We did find a book given to Patrick Murrin (Maria ryans husband) that was signed , "John Ryan",,,so this could be another Ryan child.......Trying to find any record of them in that location, is this a place in ireland you do research on....Karen Murrin................

Karen,

I don’t do research in Tipperary, as it’s a bit far away from where I live (200 miles). However there’s a list of researchers on the National Library website. You might want to choose someone from that list:

http://www.nli.ie/en/services-commissioning-research.aspx

Ballingarry is a parish in Tipperary (South Riding). There are also 3 townlands and a village named Ballingarry within the parish, so be aware that Ballingarry as place of birth includes several options.

Griffiths Valuation for 1850 lists two Patrick Ryans in the parish. Either might be your family.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

The RC parish records of baptisms and marriages begin in 1814 (with a few gaps) so that looks promising. They don’t appear to be on-line anywhere. The originals will be held by the parish but there’s a copy in the National Library in Dublin. So looks like a trip there is called for, either by you or a researcher.

[Karamazov]

That’d be the Irish equivalent of what, in the UK, would be a Justice of the Peace (JP). Not sure about the Republic of Ireland but in the UK it’s unpaid, though they might get an honorarium (ie an annual token payment). It’s not full time work, and often just involves a few minutes work a week. Usually given to distinguished members of the community (with no criminal record). See:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...issioners.html

Elwyn,
Thank you for the information and the link.
Ironically, the newspaper report (irish Independent) was about him being committed for trial in Dublin for the murder (in Ballyshannon) of his pregnant wife!
The odd thing is that I have then never been able to find any newspaper follow up re the trial in Dublin (although this has been via internet search of the Irish Newspaper Archive.) I imagine he may well have pleaded guilty as it was pretty much an open and shut case, but even so, I would,have expected to find some further reference.
The family story is that he died in Mountjoy jail, but the trail stops cold for me with the inquest being opened and adjourned in Ballyshannon and the account of the committal proceedings.

I know your expertise is for Northern Ireland, but if you have any suggestions re next steps, I'd be grateful.
Thanks again.
Christine

[PhotoFamily]

Thanks, Elwyn - more for my Christmas list!

[Elwyn]

Elwyn,
Thank you for the information and the link.
Ironically, the newspaper report (irish Independent) was about him being committed for trial in Dublin for the murder (in Ballyshannon) of his pregnant wife!
The odd thing is that I have then never been able to find any newspaper follow up re the trial in Dublin (although this has been via internet search of the Irish Newspaper Archive.) I imagine he may well have pleaded guilty as it was pretty much an open and shut case, but even so, I would,have expected to find some further reference.
The family story is that he died in Mountjoy jail, but the trail stops cold for me with the inquest being opened and adjourned in Ballyshannon and the account of the committal proceedings.

I know your expertise is for Northern Ireland, but if you have any suggestions re next steps, I'd be grateful.
Thanks again.
Christine

If he died in Mountjoy prison then the death should be registered in the usual way. With his age you may be able identify it on the civil indexes site. I think Mountjoy will be in Dublin North regn district.

I am not sure whether court papers relating to a trial in 1930 would be closed or not. You could try contacting Mountjoy to see if they can assist with any details of his imprisonment, and place of burial. If not, they may be able to tell you where the relevant records are. (Probably National Archives, Dublin). You may need a Freedom of Information request to try and access such recent records.

[Kmurrin]

Thank u for the information, i looked at the site that showed the resarch list, quite extensive.....Do i look for someone in that specific regioin, are they all pretty comprable,,,kinda lost....

[Elwyn]

Thank u for the information, i looked at the site that showed the resarch list, quite extensive.....Do i look for someone in that specific regioin, are they all pretty comprable,,,kinda lost....

Someone based in Dublin is probably as good as anything since many of the records you may need are kept in Dublin. (For example, there’s copies of nearly all RC parish registers in the National Library there, which the researcher can look up without having to go to the actual parish).

I suggest you write out what you know and what you hope to find out. Then send that to 4 or 5 chosen at random and ask them what they will charge. Most will have an hourly rate and you can usually agree a ceiling, eg not to do more than €50 worth of research without agreement etc.

Do shop around as prices will vary. In the UK for professional researchers you can expect to pay £25 an hour or more, but others will charge less. I am sure that you will find similar price variations in Dublin.