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    Record Office: Research in Northern Ireland

    Anyone needing help with research in Northern Ireland is welcome to contact me for help.

    Elwyn Soutter
    Co Antrim
    Elwyn

    I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

    #2
    Originally posted by Elwyn View Post
    Anyone needing help with research in Northern Ireland is welcome to contact me for help.

    Elwyn Soutter
    Co Antrim
    Hi Elwyn,

    I would very much like to take you up on your very kind offer.

    I have three branches that I am interested in:

    William John Dargan (Farmer) married Margaret Maguire sometime around 1833 possibly in Moira County Down Ireland.
    They had at least 2 children Mary Dargan b abt 1833 in Moira and James Dargan b September 8, 1838 also in Moira. James Dargan joined the Marist Brotherhood.

    The other branch is John Munnelly occupation Tailor father of John Munnelly b abt 1896 in County Mayo. The son John moved to Newcastle upon Tyne and married there on September 11, 1920.

    Lastly, Hugh Callaghan (Farmer/Agriculturist) married Mary? sometime around 1828 and had the following children:
    Michael Callaghan born Abt. 1828
    Hugh Callaghan born Abt. 1829
    Joseph Patrick Callaghan born Abt. 1833
    Edward Callaghan born Abt. 1839
    All of the sons moved to Newcastle upon Tyne before 1856 by which time their father Hugh Callaghan was dead.


    Not a lot to go on but any help would be gratefully received.

    Ian

    Comment


      #3
      Ian


      I searched Griffiths Valuation for the surname Dargan in the parish of Magheralin (which includes Moira). In 1864, the only households listed were both in the townland of Taughlumny. One was a Roger Dargan and the other Richard, probably a relation as he was subletting from Roger. In 1901 there is still a Dargan family farming there:

      http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...lumny/1242932/

      Your best bet is probably to search the RC parish records for the marriage and births. The parish that covers Moira is Magheralin, and their baptism and marriages start in 1815. A copy is held in PRONI, Belfast under ref MIC1D/26. The records are not on-line anywhere as far as I am aware, unless Rootsireland have them.



      I looked for a John Munnelly, son of John Munnelly, tailor in the 1901 census. This is the only one that fits:

      http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...treet/1574084/

      That would put your John’s date of birth back to around 1891. (You thought he was born c 1896).

      Same family in 1911:

      http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...na__a_/701797/

      I think the parents in this were John Munnelly and Bridget McNulty whose marriage was registered in Ballina Apr – Jun 1891 Volume 4, page 7.

      What looks like John Munnelly jnr’s birth was registered in Ballina in Jul – Sept 1891 Volume 4, page 13.


      The Callaghan name is too common and the marriage too early to be able to trace anything without more information. Usual advice in this situation is to exhaust all sources in GB in the hope of finding a clue as to where the sons came from in Ireland. Check every census in case it says more than Ireland as place of birth; checks wills, obituaries, military records; gravestones etc in the hope that a place of birth is mentioned.


      Elwyn
      Last edited by Elwyn; 26-11-12, 22:20.
      Elwyn

      I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Elwyn

        I would very much appreciate your help.

        My GG Grandfather was William Moore McMahen who I believe was born in County Armagh in about 1811. His parents were James McMahen and Ann Moore. William came to Australia around 1840 (I haven't been able to find a record of his immigration though) and married Margaret Keys who came from County Tyrone (along with her parents George and Margaret and lots of brothers and sisters). William and Margaret married in the Presbyterian church in Melbourne although I understand that the McMahens were Methodists. William died in 1892 in Victoria, Australia. I have not been able to locate any record of William's birth, or any records of all of any siblings, or his parents James and Anne. I am researching our family history for my elderly father whose McMahen father died when he was an infant and has spend his life wondering about his paternal roots. Any help you could give would be very much appreciated.

        kind regards
        Debra

        Comment


          #5
          Debra,

          Statutory registration of births and deaths didn’t start in Ireland till 1864. Protestant marriages were registered from April 1845 onwards. So you won’t find statutory birth or marriage certificates for the McMahen family in the early 1800s. You will need to rely on church records (where they survive).


          Irish tradition was to marry in the bride’s church after which she would generally attend her husband’s. So if the Keys family were Presbyterian that might account for the Presbyterian marriage when the McMahen family was Methodist.

          Methodism started as an evangelical society within the Church of Ireland and did not become a separate denomination until around 1818. Even after that date many Methodists continued to use the Church of Ireland for baptisms and marriages, especially those who did not want to split from the mainstream church. It was 1878 before all their baptisms and marriages were conducted in a Methodist church.

          So in the McMahen’s case, you can be pretty sure that William’s baptism and his parent’s marriage would have been conducted in the Church of Ireland. Your problem is that there are 29 parishes in Co Armagh. If you don’t know where in the county the family came from, you might need to search all 29. In addition a lot of early Church of Ireland records have been lost, in a fire in Dublin in 1922. (Ironically they had been sent there for safe keeping). Copies of the surviving records are kept in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast, but are not on-line anywhere as far as I am aware. So you would need to go through them there (or pay someone to do it for you).

          You will need to be flexible when searching the records with regard to the spelling of the surname. You can expect to find it varies. McMahon is a more common spelling in Ireland.

          Map of parishes in Armagh:

          http://www.ancestryireland.com/datab...ame=map_armagh

          You can see where there were McMahon families in Armagh in the mid 1860s on the Griffiths Valuation site. (157 households are listed). It shows the various parishes, so you might start with those where the name is most common.

          http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffi...ion=nameSearch

          There are no surviving censuses for Co. Armagh prior to 1901 so unfortunately you won’t get any help from that source either.


          Elwyn
          Elwyn

          I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Elwyn, I wonder if you could help find a death for me, Samuel Clarke was born in 1865 at Saul, Co.Down, he married at Kilmegan, in 1896, to Susannah McDowell, in 1899 he was jailed for a serious assault on his wife, at Dundrum Co. Down, for which he only got 6 months........after that nothing can be found on him, his wife and two children are in Ardrossan, Scotland in 1901, but there is no sign of Samuel, in 1912 she re-marries, in Scotland, and is given as a widow. I have numerous posts out on this subject, but all to no avail, any help appreciated, Regards Del.
            Researching, Clarke, Calvert, McDowell, McCreadie, Paton and Scott families, Scotland and Ireland, Ayto, Eato, Eatough family, Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire.

            Comment


              #7
              The evidence so far indicates he was alive in December 1899 when he was sent to Prison, and dead, or presumed dead, by 1912. Searching all the deaths in Ireland for the period 1900 – 1912, I see only 4 of people who are of roughly the right age. All happened to be in Belfast.

              1860 – Jan/Mar 1907
              1864 – Jan/ Mar 1909
              1864 – Jan/Mar 1909 (Samuel James Clarke)
              1871 – Apr/Jun 1908

              You could try ordering these from GRO Roscommon to see if any fits. (They cost €4 each if you give the full reference details from Familysearch). Bear in mind that the age at death was not verified in any way. It was just the best guess of the informant who, perhaps, may not have known the deceased that well. For example if he died in the workhouse, or was found alone somewhere by a neighbour. So it could be out by a good few years.

              Of course if his wife just presumed him dead, and he was in fact still alive, you have many more deaths to search through. And who is to say he died in Ireland? There’s no really easy way of tracking his man down in that situation. Or not one I can see.

              I looked to see if he was in prison or the workhouse in Ireland in both the 1901 & 1911 censuses, but he doesn’t appear to be there, at least not if he gave the correct age and county of birth. (There were a couple of partial fits in the 1911 return for Belfast workhouse of SCs who were labourers aged 40 & 35 respectively, but both claimed to be single.)
              Last edited by Elwyn; 01-12-12, 09:10.
              Elwyn

              I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Thank you Elwyn. I appreciate your advice. It confirms that the task is a difficult one. I have tried most of the resources you suggest but will try the others.

                kind regards

                Debra

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi Elwyn, this is a very long shot as I have so little info to go on, but I am trying to find a third GGF. All I have on him is his name Michael Flinn, born about 1798 in Ireland. No knowledge of where in Ireland unfortunately
                  In 1841 I have him as a labourer aged 35 of Corbetta Road, Salford Manchester.
                  He married Mary Whalley born 1808 in Lancashire. At Cathedral Manchester on 4/11/1833.
                  And in 1861 he was 63 and living in Ancoats Manchester.

                  Nothing much to go on I'm afraid but would appreciate anything you might turn up. Thank you.
                  Jen
                  Avatar: One of my paintings.

                  Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You don’t say what denomination Michael was, but I’ll assume he was RC. Very few parishes outside Dublin have records that go back to the 1790s, so there’s a fair chance that you won’t be able to find his baptism due to lack of records. You won’t get a birth certificate either as they did not start till 1864. No censuses in Ireland before 1901.

                    To have any chance of tracing his family you need to try and find at least his parish in Ireland if not his townland. The normal advice in this situation is to exhaust all English sources in the hope that one of them will reveal more about him. Standard sources are to check all censuses. Sometimes people put more than just Ireland as place of birth; military records if applicable, obituaries, wills and gravestones. Poor law applications: If he applied for assistance to the Poor Law Board then normally their records would contain details of his family and where he came from in Ireland (needed because in some circumstances he could be returned to that Board, if destitute).

                    But it can be extremely difficult to trace someone’s origin in Ireland for that era.
                    Elwyn

                    I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you Elwyn, I figured as much I don't think I will ever find more on him, though i will try the Poor Law applications.....you never know. Many thanks Elwyn.
                      Jen
                      Avatar: One of my paintings.

                      Researching: Brandon.London/M/cr. Tyson.France/Mcr.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hello Elwyn

                        I am trying to find the birth of Samuel Brush on his army records it says he was born 1798 birth parish Ballynappully. birth town Augher County Tyrone, would like any thing on him or ideas where to look.

                        Thank you Annabel

                        Comment


                          #13
                          There’s no parish named Ballynapully in Co Tyrone (nor anything similar that it might be a mis-spelling of). Augher is in the parish of Clogher.

                          I suspect that Ballynapully might be the townland that Samuel came from though I can’t see any in the parish of Clogher with that or a sufficiently similar name. Perhaps Augher was just his postal town and he actually lived nearby in a different parish? You can look at all the townlands and parishes in Tyrone on the attached link:

                          http://www.seanruad.com/

                          You don’t say what denomination Samuel was. His birth is well before the start of statutory registration in Ireland (1864) and so baptismal records are the normal fall back option for finding a birth record. However in this case, according to the PRONI website, none of the main denominations records for the parish of Clogher go back to the 1790s. (The earliest are the local Presbyterian records which start in 1836).

                          Looking at Griffiths Valuation for 1860 there were Samuel Brush households near to Clogher in the townlands of Cavan O’Neill, Drumaslaghy and Shantavny (parish of Carnteel) and in Cullentra (parish of Killeeshil). (Possible relatives?)


                          The Cavan O’Neill Brush family were Presbyterian (1901 census).; likewise Drumaslaghy & Shantavny families.

                          http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffi...tion/index.xml
                          Last edited by Elwyn; 31-01-13, 11:37.
                          Elwyn

                          I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thank you for your reply I could not find a place called Ballynappully

                            All I have on Samuel Brush is his army service record found on FMP under Chelsea pensioners records, which says birth parish Ballynappully. birth town Augher County Tyrone, Ireland

                            I am trying to find the family of a Catherine Brush born in Gibralter 1827 who married a George Stevens her father on their wedding certificate is a Samuel Brush, as this Samuel Brush was in the army and was in Gibraltar at the time of her birth wondering if there is a link.

                            Ann
                            Last edited by annabel; 01-02-13, 00:32.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Marriagea record in Coleraine

                              Hi Elwyn - I am trying to track down a marriage record on behalf of my mother- in - law. Her great-grandparents emigrated to Canada in 1834. Alexander McKee married Jane Brown of Coleraine some years before that. The family was Presbyterian. When emigrating they arrived with several children so I assume they were married around 1820 or so. One child was Alexander McKee born 1832 in Knockintern" (sp?). Can you point me in the right direction. Needless to say, with a name like Jane Brown I haven't found any birth records! And Alexander seems to be a mystery too! Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Statutory recording of Presbyterian marriages started in 1845, and of all births in 1864. Prior to that you have to rely on church records. There’s no comprehensive index and such records as there are are mostly not on-line. (Some records have been lost). If you don’t know where the marriage took place it’s sometimes a needle in a haystack.


                                Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church so if she came from Coleraine, and was Presbyterian, I’d search the local Presbyterian Church records. There are 3 Presbyterian churches in Coleraine plus a Reformed Presbyterian church. Only the 2nd has records for the period pre 1845. They start in 1809, so it would be worth checking them out. There’s a copy in PRONI, Belfast. You would need to get someone to look them up for you.

                                The townland the child was born in is almost certainly Knockantern which is just outside Coleraine. On the east side of the River Bann, about half a mile south of Coleraine. I looked in Griffiths Valuation for the 1860s but there were no Brown families listed in that townland at that time but if they were weavers or agricultural labourers they often would not be listed, so it’s not conclusive. No Browns there in the 1901 census.
                                Elwyn

                                I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Hi Elwyn,

                                  I would very much like your help

                                  I am researching my family tree and hope that you may be able to help me.I have only been able to trace my family members back as far as below.

                                  My great great great grandfather Patrick Emmett who i believe to have been born about 1810 Ireland.(No other information available as yet).

                                  My great great grandfather Patrick Joseph Emmett born about 1831 in Galway Ireland.
                                  Came to England (don't know when,maybe during the famine ?).
                                  Married Elizabeth Anderson in 1859.
                                  Children (x9) William Bernard Emmett being my great grandfather.

                                  I have tried but as yet am unable to find out any more information.

                                  Hope you can help.

                                  Many thanks

                                  Mark

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Hi Elwyn,

                                    This may or may not help with my previous request.

                                    Patrick Joseph Emmett is thought to have been born in Cloncoe in the parish of Ballynakill on the 11th Nov 1831 but this has not been confirmed.

                                    Thanks

                                    Mark

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Irish research for the period you are interested in can be very difficult, as you have probably already discovered. There are no censuses before 1901 and many parishes don’t have records that go back to the early 1800s.

                                      Emmet(t) is not a common name in Co Galway. There are none in Griffiths Valuation (1856) and none in the 1901 census, anywhere in the whole county, let alone in Clonco. The name is a bit more common in neighbouring Tipperary. There’s only a handful of Emmett birth, deaths & marriages in Co Galway in the statutory registers, and they are nearly all for the 20th century. (Statutory birth & death registration began on 1.1.1864 in Ireland).

                                      According to the site below, the RC parish records for Ballynakill parish start with baptisms in 1839 (with gaps). They don’t have any marriage records before 1870. So if PJ did come from Clonco, you won’t be able to confirm that for certain from any church records. You could check the parish records anyway. Though you evidently won’t find PJ’s baptism, you might find that of any siblings born after 1839. That would at least tell you whether there was an Emmett family in Clonco at the time, and should tell you the parents names.

                                      http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/b.../galwayerc.htm

                                      Usual advice in this situation is to exhaust all English sources for further information about where the family came from. Good sources are poor law applications which usually contain details of the person’s parish in Ireland, plus other family they may have. Check every possible census. Census returns sometimes include exact place of birth, instead of just “Ireland”. Look out also for other Irish people nearby in the censuses. Immigrants often settled near people they knew from home. Check any military records, old diaries, gravestones, family bibles, wills and obituaries. Birth certs for some locations (e.g. Scotland, save for 1856 to 1859) include place of marriage of parents. Marriage certs in some locations (e.g. US States) can include places of birth, parents, etc for bride and groom. Funeral home records can be very informative. Death certs (e.g. US, Australia & Scotland) can show parents names. If PJ married in England in 1859 then his marriage cert should have his father’s name and occupation. Here are the links for Griffiths and the 1901 census for Clonco (mis-spelled Cloneo). http://www.census.nationalarchives.i...odford/Cloneo/

                                      http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
                                      Last edited by Elwyn; 12-02-13, 09:28.
                                      Elwyn

                                      I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Thank you Elwyn,

                                        I thought this was going to be a tough one to crack, thanks for your time,advice and links.

                                        Mark

                                        Comment

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