The Winner of WDWTYA? 6th November 2008 is......

[Peter Evans]

KiteRunner,

Thank you for more helpful suggestions. The marriages of Boell siblings won't be easy to identify but I should be able to pinpoint the deaths of Elizabeth and James Boell more easily.

Peter

[Peter Evans]

After the teeming streets of C19 London we go to the quiet of rural life.

Problem no 2: Is there enough proof to assume a connection?

My ancestors, Samuel and Sarah Talbot, lived in Barrow, a village near Bury St Edmunds in West Suffolk. According to the parish register they had several children baptised: Ann (1809), William (1811), Henry (1815), Samuel (1818), George (1820) and Mary (1822).
However, there is no record of a marriage in Barrow. Samuel Talbot died in 1824 but his widow, Sarah, is given an age in the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses consistent with a birth in 1784. Her place of birth is always Denham, a nearby village. The only Sarah born in Denham in 1784 is Sarah Mortlock, and the next nearest Sarah was born two years earlier.

There is a baptism of a Mary Talbot d/o Samuel and Sarah Talbot in Denham on 14/12/1806; and there is a burial in Barrow of Mary Talbot aged 4 ½ years d/o Samuel and Sarah Talbot. No further Talbot children are recorded in Denham after Mary.

Also in 1806 (30/4/1806) is a marriage by licence between Samuel Talbot, private in the West Suffolk Militia, and Sarah Mortlock otp. The marriage took place in Burrough Green, Cambridgeshire, about 15 miles from Barrow and Denham. Despite the “otp” no Mortlocks are recorded there.

My question then is: Is it beyond reasonable doubt that the Samuel Talbot and Sarah Mortlock who married in Burrough Green were the same Samuel Talbot and Sarah Mortlock who had children in Denham and Barrow?

I have looked at this so often I don’t know whether it is merely wishful thinking (as Talbot is a very common name in that part of Suffolk) or is this all too great a coincidence not to be true.

Your thoughts and suggestions would be very welcome.

Peter

[dicole]

Hi Peter

I have been reading with interest, but not able to help with the first question.

I have found that sometimes marriages take place a goodly distance from the home of the bride and groom. Seems especially evident in my family for second marriages.

I am thinking particularly of two who lived in Speldhurst Kent, but ducked across the border to Frant Sussex to get married. (she was a widow and several months pregnant).
Also Guy Cole of Ashwell married his second wife Rebecca Palmer of Brooke in Thorpe Achurch Northamptonshire, a very long way from home.

You said the 1806 marriage was between Samuel Talbot and Sarah Talbot - does this imply that Sarah was already using the name Talbot (or did you mean Mortlock) ? Could she have been married to one of Samuel's relatives ? I think that they only had to reside in parish, to be called "otp" not be born there. So Sarah could have been working in a domestic situation before her marriage. It would be interesting to see why they married by licence, but I don't know if thats possible.

Also it was not unusual for first children, like Mary to be born and baptised in the mothers home parish, especially if Samuel was in the militia and often away from home.Perhaps they lived with her family for a while.

I think you should try to find out more about that Samuel and Sarah who married in Burrough Green, and see if you can separate them from yours (eg other baptisms in Burrough Green, census records).

Di

[Peter Evans]

Hi Di,

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. You are quite right: I did make a typo, now corrected. It should have been Sarah Mortlock.

You have probably hit the nail on the head with the suggestion that Sarah was working in Burrough Green in a domestic situation; for on the 1871 census for Barrow Sarah Talbot is described as "widow, 87, formerly domestic servant, [born] Suffolk Denham". The census enumerator was very conscientious as presumably her domestic service ended with the birth of Mary in 1806, about 65 years earlier.

Peter

[KiteRunner]

I would say it must be them.

[dicole]

So would I, Kite; though I would keep an eye out for another Samuel and Sarah around Burrough Green.

On the map, Burrough Green, Denham and Barrow are all about the same distance from Newmarket Cam. BG is right near the county border.

Peter, I love those census enumerators who were thorough - she might have also worked as a domestic after Samuels death - she lived to a good age, didn't she ?

Di

[Peter Evans]

Di,

She may have worked in service after Samuel's death in 1824 but she had young children to bring up, not least Miriam Talbot, born in 1828 and noted punctiliously in the parish register as the "daughter of Sarah Talbot widow". Unfortunately Miriam's marriage certificate gives no clue as to the father.

Peter

[Peter Evans]

Problem no 3: Are you feeling strong? We return to London and Emily Bowles' partner but this means the dreaded Davi(e)s name.

Where was Joseph Davi(e)s living in 1861?

I have found him in every other census from 1851 to 1901. He should be registered as 17years of age, and on the other censuses he gives his place of birth as St John's Wood or Marylebone. In 1869 he gives his occupation as coal porter (and throughout the rest of his life) but he may not have started yet.

Peter

[KiteRunner]

The trouble with 1861 is that there are so many bits missing:
Missing Census Pages - Family Tree Forum

So he could have been in one of those missing bits and we would never find him.

[Peter Evans]

Thanks for the information, KiteRunner. I have suffered through the loss of the whole Ely census but didn't know parts of London were also missing. Well, as I have him in all the other censuses it won't be critical.

Peter

[Peter Evans]

I think that brings my questions to an end for the present. I would like to thank everyone who took an interest and who made helpful suggestions and comments. Not only do I have a very likely connection with the Boell/Bowles family because of KiteRunner's diligent searching but also forum members have proposed several lines of inquiry that I intend to pursue.

Thank you for taking the trouble to think through my problems,

Peter