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The Winner of WDWTYA? 6th November 2008 is......

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  • The Winner of WDWTYA? 6th November 2008 is......

    Peter Evans

    Well done Peter!

    *frets we might have to help look for people named Evans*

  • #2
    Congratulaions Peter go get some walls down dear ;;;
    borobabs passed away March 2018

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow, Merry. This is exciting. (Incidentally, you needn't worry about looking for Evanses but there will be an even more common name in the story.) Anyway, I hope fellow members can help me trace some of my C19 London ancestors who seem to have shunned birth registration, baptism, and marriage; they also get involved with people with very commmon surnames that also have variant spellings.

      Problem no 1: My gt-gt-grandmother, Emily Bowles.

      a) Who were her parents?
      b) Where was she living in 1851 and 1861?
      c) Did she ever marry Joseph Davies?

      In 1869 she appears on her son's birth certificate living in Albert Road, Kilburn, as Emily Davies formerly Bowles, wife of Joseph Davies.

      In 1871 (RG10/18/5) Chippenham Mews, Paddington, Emily Davis (sic), wife, marr, 22(?), laundress, born Middlesex Chelsea.

      In the following decade she had several children and on their birth certificates she is always described as Emily Davies, formerly Bowles.

      In 1881 (RG11/0040/46/42) 3, Gadsden Mews, Kensington Town, Emily Davies, wife, marr, 32, laundress, Middlesex Chelsea.

      12/8/1890 she died in Kensington Town, 42, wife of Joseph Davies.

      I have searched the GRO indexes and freeBMD several times but have been unable to find a marriage or her birth.

      A word of warning: there is an Emily Bowles living at POnd Place in Chelsea in 1851 and 1861 but she marries Frederick Watts in 1865 and, although I have lost the record now, they were together in 1871 when my Emily and Joseph were in Paddington.

      So I would be grateful if fresh pairs of eyes and fresh brains could come up with helpful leads.

      Peter

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      • #4
        What is the name of the son born in 1869 Peter?

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        • #5
          There is a Emily Bowels born in 1846 born in Chelsea on the 1861 census. Piece: 35; Folio: 81; Page: 16 Her mother is a Mrs Mary Bowles

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          • #6
            peter enjoy uor week they will keep you busy lol brenda xxx

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            • #7
              Val and George,

              The son is Joseph Davies, the same as the father.

              Deletejb,

              I am at work now and so can't check but I think this is the Pond Place family that I believe can be ruled out. Is that the address?

              Peter

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              • #8
                Just rechecked it is the one in 18 Pond Place. Sorry - just read the top of your post in morning, but now see the bit about the other Emily.

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                • #9
                  I had a look last night but found nothing yet, by the way.
                  KiteRunner

                  Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                  (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Problem no 1 (continued):

                    As no Emily Bowles has emerged despite the efforts of Forum members could I ask your opinion on this candidate?

                    1851 (HO 107/1474/537/9) 74, South Row, St Luke's Chelsea, Kensal Green
                    Emily Boell, dau, 2, born Middlesex Kensal New Town

                    !861 (RG9/126/14) Green Grocer's shop, Chelsea
                    Emily Boell, dau, 13, born Middlesex Chelsea

                    The age and place of birth are exactly right but what about the name? We expect variations but the final "s" looks odd. This family has all its children registered Boell, admittedly by the same registrar. The father was illiterate but, it seems, the mother signed. The spelling Boell also appears in the 1841 census. But when my Emily registers her children (with three different registrars) she is always recorded as "formerly Bowles".

                    Are they the same woman?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Peter Evans View Post

                      The age and place of birth are exactly right but what about the name? We expect variations but the final "s" looks odd.
                      It isn't that uncommon for a surname to acquire or lose an "s" on the end so it could well be her. Do any of her children's first names match names in the Boell family?
                      KiteRunner

                      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good idea, KiteRunner.

                        The Boell parents were James and Elizabeth, and the Boell children were Elizabeth (probably), Henry, Anne, Esther, and Hannah.

                        The children of Joseph Davies and Emily Bowles were Joseph, Elizabeth, Ellen, George Henry, Willie, and John. So I don't think there are any obvious clues here.

                        Peter

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                        • #13
                          I'm trying to find any of the Boells in 1871 to see if it gives us any clues, but failing there too! I wonder if we can find marriages for any of them...
                          KiteRunner

                          Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                          (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oh yes, this is looking good but it's my bedtime so I can't transcribe it tonight:
                            1871 census RG10; Piece: 174; Folio: 68; Page: 5

                            There is a James Bowles with wife Elizabeth and they are about the right age and born Bucks, living London, with one daughter who is born Kensal Town so I think it must be them and since their surname has changed to Bowles, I guess the rest of the family did the same.
                            KiteRunner

                            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh, KiteRunner, that does sound good. They were certainly from Bucks in the earlier censuses. Could you let me see the details of the 1871 when convenient?

                              There is a marriage for Hannah Bowell in Q4 1876 at Pancras that might be her sister but there are plenty of others with various spellings too. Nevertheless I am very encouraged by your findings.

                              Peter

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                              • #16
                                Peter - in the 1861 census the Boell family are living at the greengrocers shop in Chelsea NE
                                Elizabeth Boell wife M 45 ironer born Bucks, Ickford with daughters Anne 17, Emily 13, Esther 11 and Hannah 5 - all born in Chelsea

                                Elizabeth's occupation ties in with Emily - who at a later date was a launderess (just one familiarity, albeit rather remote).

                                I haven't yet found James in this census

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                                • #17
                                  everyone's thinking os spelling variations for emily's surname, but has anyone thought of differe3nt spellings for joseph's name?

                                  i mean that the indexes might have a funny spelling on the marriage cert?

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                                  • #18
                                    Val, I think Peter already had the 1861 details.

                                    1871:
                                    11 East St., Christchurch, Marylebone, London
                                    Jas Bowles Head M 63 Watchman GWR(?) Worminghall(?) Bucks
                                    Elizabeth Bowles Wife 56 Ickford "
                                    Anna Maria " Daughter 15 Servant Kensal Town Midd

                                    (Anna Maria must be Hannah.)
                                    KiteRunner

                                    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Kylejustin,

                                      Thanks for the suggestion. I will look again for Davi(e)s marriages with Emily B???.

                                      KiteRunner,

                                      Thanks again for your help. This is certainly the (previously) Boell family. It shows that they could be registered in the Bowles manner. It does look as if this is "my" Emily's family since Emily Boell is the only Emily Bo??? born in Chelsea at the correct time. However, it seems unlikely that I will get corroborating evidence: if Joseph and Emily didn't marry then they are unlikely to have had their children baptised. I have not found them in the parish registers I have consulted so far.

                                      This resurrects genealogy's philosophical question raised a few weeks ago (by Henry, I think): when certainty is unobtainable what degree of probability takes us beyond reasonable doubt? In others words can I put Emily Boell and her family into my tree?

                                      Peter

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        It could be that Emily and Joseph did get married but their marriage didn't make it onto the GRO indexes, or got lost from them. One thing you could try is looking for marriages for Emily Boell's siblings, especially any who married after Emily started calling herself Davies, and see if any of them have an Emily Davies (or Joseph) as a witness. Or indeed, if they have Emily Boell as a witness! Also if either or both of Emily Boell's parents died after your Emily was a Davies, you could get their death certificates to see if Emily was the informant. Not very likely the parents left wills, I suppose.
                                        KiteRunner

                                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                                        Comment

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