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    Scottish Social History Q

    I am ashamed to say that my knowledge of Scottish social history is virtually nil!

    Can anyone tell me - what is the likelihood of someone born in the late 1700s NOT being baptised? I do know that in England and Wales, is was virtually impossible NOT to be baptised - the Church chased you, and baptism was something which gave you certain rights within a parish - without a baptism, you were on your own if you got into any financial trouble.

    I know that Scotland did not have Rights of Settlement, the same way that England did - but what was the norm?

    I have a death cert for 1867 of a man born 1805, which names his mother in full, but his father only as "surname Urquhart". Using the PRs, I have found the marriage of the mother to a Donald Urquhart in 1794.

    But there are no baptisms of any children to this couple, either together, or separately. I do know they remained in the same parish all their lives.

    OC

    #2
    I am not totally sure how things were back then but I do have a direct ancestor born in 1833 who wasn't baptised. Thankfully she was married in 1855 (The first year of Statutory Registration in Scotland) and her date of birth is given, along with the fact that she was never baptised. :(

    I do know that the Scotlands People website only holds parish records for those baptised church of scotland too...... so any other denomination can't be found on there.
    With Experience comes Realisation

    Comment


      #3
      OC.... sorry meant to add that it was common amongst poorer families as the church of Scotland charged a fee and if a family couldn't afford it then it didn't happen.

      Mind you I wouldn't give up hope entirely because the spelling errors in the parish records at times can be even worse than anywhere else :D
      With Experience comes Realisation

      Comment


        #4
        Shaz

        Thankyou - at least I know it was possible for a whole family of kids NOT to be baptised!

        I am also starting to wonder.....my man is Daniel, which is frequently mistranscribed as David. Is it possible that Daniel and DONALD are interchangeable?

        Daniel has a son Daniel - but not a son Donald, and there are no Donalds forward in this family at any point. The family was from the Black Isles, if that makes any difference in the accent!

        OC

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          #5
          Are these Urquhart's from Ross & Cromarty??

          Names were always interchangeable :D they just seemed to call themselves whatever they felt like at the time.
          With Experience comes Realisation

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            #6
            OC: I fell into a site by accident some time ago that gave all the various fallings-out, schisms and amalgamations of the Scottish churches over the centuries. As BigShaz says, SP only holds OPR records for the (established) Church of Scotland, not for any of the many dissenting churches.

            My great-grandmother and her siblings are one notable chunk of my tree for which I have no baps, though their parents were married in the CofS.
            Uncle John

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              #7
              Shaz

              Yes, they were from Ross and Cromarty - took me some time to work out that was where Rossshire had moved to, lol!

              I am further unnerved to find a place called Nigg - another Scottish branch were from Nigg, which I had identified as being Aberdeen (again, it moved about over the centuries) and now have to go through all this lot again and find out if they lived at Nigg in the Highlands, or Nigg in Aberdeen....

              I do remember reading somewhere ages ago, that Scottish Highland research is made very difficult because they changed their names according to the occasion, and where they were at the time - Donald MacDonald on one hillside became Malcolm McKay, for a visit to another hillside!

              I feel very much the newbie with this Scottish research, and the feeling reminds me of when I first started family history donkeys years ago - didn't know anything, not even where to look, and didn't know what there was to look at, anyway!

              OC

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                #8
                One of my 3xGreat Grandmothers was born in Resolis, Ross and Cromarty
                She seemed to flit about too and married a Guy in Nairn, Nairnshire who was born in Ardersier, Inverness :D

                I am often amazed at how much people moved around way back then and wonder how they did it.

                One direct line managed to go from St Andrews in Fife to Clackmannan then to Dunfermline before flitting down to England for a short time with wife and 6 kids where they stayed long enough to have a 7th before going all the way back to Fife sometime before 1855 (child 7 died here) they had more children before finally ending their days in lanarkshire

                I did find a David Urquhart on IGI born to a David and Margaret Hunter in Resolis Ross and Cromarty in July 1805. But then I doubt its that easy..... must be a different one :D
                With Experience comes Realisation

                Comment


                  #9
                  OC - I am one quarter Scottish through my grandmother, and I would never have got a fraction of the information I have on her family had it not been for about 3 contacts from GR (which made it worth my while in the early days). They had done most of the research for my Wisharts, and a lot for my Johnstons.

                  And then a few kind souls took pity on me and helped me find my elusive Richardsons - the surprise being that my great-grandmother was illegitimate and her mum was rather free and loose with her favours! :o

                  I found SP very difficult to search at first. People kept telling me what great value it was, but it didn't feel like it when my credits disappeared in minutes because I was researching a common name like "Robert Johnston" and didn't have a clue where he came from!

                  I have rather neglected them over the past year, and will have to return to them again. :( The saving grace was when Ancestry put the Scottish censuses on line, because at least it is easier to search that way!

                  Good luck!
                  Last edited by Elizabeth Herts; 07-01-08, 16:48.
                  Elizabeth
                  Research Interests:
                  England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                  Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    :D Elizabeth I know the feeling.... I also have Richardson's & Johnston's but lets not even go there with my Grant's, Paterson's, Hamilton's Robertson's etc. etc. For good measure I even have Smith's which is actually the most popular name in Scotland :D

                    It is hard watching the credits fly down but over the years I have managed to find my own way of researching to get the best out of my cash. Sadly when I go to home to visit I never get time to go and search in person by the time I have seen to all the living relatives and of course my friends
                    With Experience comes Realisation

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Shaz

                      Mine either stayed put for centuries, or moved everytime there was a new moon.

                      My Scottish lot were nearly all connected with the sea in some way, so I can understand their geographical movements easily - they went where the work was (Aberdeen) and some of them went from Nigg in the highlands, to Nigg in Aberdeen, just to confuse me further, of course.

                      I only started the Scottish side last New Year's day - 2007, that is, and thanks to the wonderful Woody and others, made astonishing progress - five generations in 6 days! But I floundered with searching the censuses on SP, wasted a lot of money and gave up for a while.

                      But now I have Ancestry, I've got cleverer - I look for them on there, and use SP to search for the gaps, which is working so far - I can hone in far better on SP with some facts behind me.

                      OC

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                        #12
                        OC.........Daniel and Donald are the same name in Scotland and completely interchangeable.

                        There is a list od SP (I think)....I'll check.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Yep......Scotlands People "Help and other Resources" at the top.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Harry's Mum

                            Thankyou for that!

                            *makes note to self: when all else fails, read the instructions*

                            OC

                            Comment


                              #15
                              While we are on the subject of Scottish names, perhaps someone can help me with the following:

                              My grandmother had two sisters: Catherine Wishart Johnston, born 7th October 1897, and "Annie".

                              I haven't been able to find a birth registration for Annie (parents Robert Johnston and Isabella, nee Richardson).

                              When Isabella Johnston died in 1939 the informant was "Anne Drever".

                              However, on the 1901 census the family consists of:
                              Robert Johnstone (sic) 39
                              Isabella Johnstone 35
                              Mary I Johnstone (my grandmother) 4
                              David Johnston (brother of Robert) 39 and
                              ROBINA JOHNSTONE Aged 2

                              (Catherine Wishart Johnston was in hospital)

                              Was Robina Annie? Noone ever mentioned an Annie - my father and my aunt talked about Catherine, as she died young from TB, and mentioned "Annie" but no details.

                              Is Robina one of those Scottish names that can have other forms?
                              Elizabeth
                              Research Interests:
                              England:Purkis, Stilwell, Quintrell, White (Surrey - Guildford), Jeffcoat, Bond, Alexander, Lamb, Newton (Lincolnshire, Stalybridge, London)
                              Scotland:Richardson (Banffshire), Wishart (Kincardineshire), Johnston (Kincardineshire)

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                Harry's Mum

                                Thankyou for that!

                                *makes note to self: when all else fails, read the instructions*

                                OC


                                Gee I didn't. In all the time I've used SP, I didn't even know that was there. Found it by googling "interhangebale Scottish names" LOL.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Update:

                                  Hurray, hurray! Have now found baptism of my Daniel as Donald, and loads of sibs.

                                  Mother has been transcribed as Grisel, or Girsal, which I now assume is interchangeable with Grace, lol. Right surname for her.

                                  And, on another line in Scotland, have received a reply to a message I sent off on Sunday, to someone who left a message on Rootsweb two years ago. We are related - my 3 x GGF is her 2 x GGF, although we are from different marriages. She has loads of forward info which she is sending me.

                                  All in all, a good research day today!

                                  OC

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Yes I've got a born Donald and baptised as Donald marrying twice as Daniel and dying as Daniel.

                                    However on ancestry 1851 census he's David!!!!!



                                    Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      JBee

                                      Yes, my Daniel is David too, but I am very used to that particular mistranscription - very common in England. The words Daniel and David are virtually indistinguishable in curly writing, especially if they sloppily run the e close to the final l - looks like a d then.

                                      OC

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