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Owd Timothy o' th' Looms- Holden Family

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    Owd Timothy o' th' Looms- Holden Family

    :D
    I happen to come across a gg grannie from darwen with the name holden and have found out that the name holden was very common in the darwen, lancashire area at the time. Also ive stumbled across a few websites, messages on boards that link most holdens from darwen to a man called Timothy Holden "Owd Timothy o' th' Looms"; I too may have found a link from my grannie to him...but does anybody know who he was and why he was well known in darwen. From what i can see he seemed to be quite known from the impression i got from other websites.....but who was he?...


    Does anybody know?
    LondonLass_89 xXx

    :::@# The Secret Will Reveal Itself......After I Uncover My Great Ancestors Of The Past....**~$@

    #2
    You need to ask Olde Crone!

    Wasn't Timothy the one who OC says was actually a girl and didn't have any chilren, or something like that!!

    Anyway, she will know.

    Have fun!

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Londonlass, and welcome to FTF!

      I hope you have received my pm on GR by now but just in case you haven't..

      Owd Timothy o't'Looms 1700-1791 (Timothy Holden, of Darwen, Lancs) was a very well known and extremely respected man in the small village of Darwen in the 1700s. (Darwen had a population of 699 people in 1700).

      He was a hand loom weaver, as was everyone else in the village, and he lived in a cottage which was called "The Looms" at Hoddlesden, the upper part of Darwen.

      Other weavers gathered in his cottage and he taught them to read, so that they could study, and interpret the scriptures for themselves - this was giddy and dangerous stuff at the time.

      Because he was so important locally, lots is known about him and he therefore becomes a Gateway Ancestor - hitch up to him and you can hitch onto his 5000 or more descendants. He had many children, all very fertile, and there is hardly a family in Darwen which does not have a connection to this man.

      In addition to this, one of his great grandchildren wrote a book in the late 1800s (Jeremy Hunt). Jeremy was more or less illiterate, but he was a complete genealogy nutcase, lol, and he recites the pedigrees of many Darwen families, which he carried in his head. Some was passed onto him by his grandmother, who was equally as obsessed, and she had known Owd T as a very small girl.

      When I got hold of this book, my heart sank. It was dictated by Jeemy, to a local jornalist, and reads as it was spoken - no punctuation, no dates and a lot of confusing "and his son" (whose son??". I really didn't think any of it could be worth pursuing, but I did.

      Astonishingly, he was 99% accurate! Some tiny mistakes - he wasn't keen on women and often got an Alice muddled up with an Ann, or whatever, but the parish registers bear out his accuracy in getting the right family groups and who married who.

      Sooo...I have finished up with this HUGE tree for Owd Timothy and his descendants, and a lot of other Darwen people who don't appear to have anything to do with him.

      If you have ancestors in Darwen you are lucky - there is so much information available, including the wonderful 1819 Pole Lane Census, and the Pole Lane Chapel records which record not only a baptism, but the parents and grandparents of a child and all the other children in the family.

      Let me know who your Darwen ancestor is, and I will look for them on my tree - it doesn't come forward much into the 20th century, though.

      OC

      Comment


        #4
        Who was the one who was a woman then?? lolol

        Comment


          #5
          Merry

          That was Justinian Holden, who sailed on the Mayflower and was the forefather of every Holden in the US today.

          Just the small matter of him being a female, according to the PR. And marrying and dying in England.

          OC

          Comment


            #6
            OC

            Thanks for the reply..

            Well i have a few unlinked Holdens....

            Alice Holden, b. 1857 Darwen....Father is William Holden Occu: Cotton (Loomer, Leaver, Lormer???) m Thomas Edward Johnson 1893 in Darwen

            Betsy Holden b. 1838 Darwen....m Thomas Grime 1863

            Isabella Holden b. 1828 Darwen F & M - Edward and Mary Holden

            Mostly Lookin for the top 2 tho...Hope There sumthin there.
            LondonLass_89 xXx

            :::@# The Secret Will Reveal Itself......After I Uncover My Great Ancestors Of The Past....**~$@

            Comment


              #7
              Hi OC

              How lucky that you persevered with Old Jeremy's book. Dare I ask if there are any ECCLES mentioned in the book ?

              My ancestor Christopher ECCLES suddenly appears in Manchester in 1826, and the Darwen line seems a likely place to start (IGI Reports a Christopher baptised 1790).

              Diane
              Diane
              Sydney Australia
              Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

              Comment


                #8
                Are you the lady that was asking on GR? to whom I sent a PM about OC?

                (Maid Marion / Joy Kentish Maid etc)
                Joy

                Comment


                  #9
                  Joy

                  Yes Its me sophie; thank you for your help and pointing me in this direction....i now realise this site is very helpful and Hopefully Oc can help me with a few things....

                  Thanks xx
                  LondonLass_89 xXx

                  :::@# The Secret Will Reveal Itself......After I Uncover My Great Ancestors Of The Past....**~$@

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Oh good. I am very pleased.
                    Joy

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Dicole:

                      Only a handful of Eccles in my tree and I don't THINK Jeremy Hunt "did" the Eccles, from memory.

                      But I have put a note in my tree to say you are looking for a Christopher Eccles and I will let you know if I fall over him!

                      London Lass:

                      Sorry, no Betsy Holden marrying Thomas Grimes, no Alice with a father William marrying a Johnson!

                      But Isabel Holden is there - the daughter of Edward Holden and Mary Ann Brandwood,and she is a direct descendant of Owd Timothy o'th'Looms.(2 x G granddaughter). She was born on 26 June 1827 at Higher House, Darwen.

                      Father Edward Holden bp 30 November 1800, Pole Lane Chapel, Darwen. Married Mary Ann Brandwood, 5 March 1821, Blackburn St Mary.

                      I'll have a dig around on Alice and Betsy on the census and see what I can find.

                      EDIT: Do you have Alice's address at marriage? I cannot find an Alice with a father called William in 1861 or 71, who was born in Darwen.

                      OC
                      Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 07-01-08, 23:13.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        OC

                        Well heres the thing...in 1901 alice was married with thomas johnson...she married him in 1893 where she was living down Bolton Road, Darwen (father william was put down as deceased) and in 1891 she was living with the grime family Thomas and Betsy Grime.On that census she was put down as other relative so i checked the grime marriage and that Betsy's maiden name was Holden.

                        Now in 1881 she was also living with the Grime fmaily and in 1871 Alice was put down as a boarder living with the Bury family in Darwen. If you check, not only is Alice Holden living with this Bury family; but another Holden (who was Isabella); she was put down as sister in Law...so i check the bury's marriage and the wifes name was also Holden too......

                        So thats where the different Holden's are... they are related sum how but i just need 2 make that link...whether the Bury wife, the Grime wife Betsy and Isabella are all sisters or not and maybe alice wnet to stay with ehr aunties...i have no idea...but on each Census Alice has lived with a Holden individual that has got 2 be related to alice somehow......

                        I spose the only thing to do is get Alice'e birth cert.....

                        It's still annoying and a mystery to not know how these Holdens are linked....

                        Regards
                        LondonLass_89 xXx

                        :::@# The Secret Will Reveal Itself......After I Uncover My Great Ancestors Of The Past....**~$@

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks OC, for keeping me in mind

                          One day something will turn up. I am in touch with some Eccles rellies remaining in England, but they are not as far advanced as me. Maybe one day they will catch up and get past my brickwalls as they are not so far away from the source.

                          Diane
                          Diane
                          Sydney Australia
                          Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Ah!

                            I can confirm that Ellen Holden married Andrew Bury on Sep 02 1844, and that she was the sister of Isabel.

                            They had a brother, William Holden born 1822, who married Sarah Marsden. This might be Alice's parents. But odd that she is not called niece - I wonder if she was the illegitimate daughter of one of them?

                            The children of Edward Holden and Mary Brandwood were:

                            William 1822, married Sarah Marsden
                            Esther b 1824
                            Ellen b 13 Dec 1825, married Andrew Bury September 02 1844, Blackburn St Mary
                            Isabel
                            Mary Ann b 24 July 1830
                            Timothy b 1833
                            Edward b 1835
                            John b 1836
                            Margaret Ann 1845, married William Hillyard (more info)

                            EDIT - in 1881, William is a widower with 2 children, neither of them called Alice, but his unmarried sister Isabella is living with him. So it is looking very likely that Alice was illegitimate, as they are being so coy about her relationship to the family. (Timothy died young, Edward doesnt seem to have married, and I have lost John in amongst all the other John Holdens...)

                            OC
                            Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 08-01-08, 00:55.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hm, well, Isabella is at home with her widowed mum and some brothers and sisters in 1861 - no sign of Alice, but a granddaughter named Mary Ann. I think that kind of rules out Isabella as Alice's secret mother, otherwise I would expect Alice to be there too.

                              OC

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Hmm....Looks like im going to have to do some more digging around...

                                Thanks anywaz
                                LondonLass_89 xXx

                                :::@# The Secret Will Reveal Itself......After I Uncover My Great Ancestors Of The Past....**~$@

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  OC

                                  The Alice I was looking for is confirmed; she was the child of William Holden and Sarah Marsden. Im definetly related to Ol Timothy!!! Haha. I was wondering if you had any info on Sarah as I just found she died before 1861 and I have no idea of when she was born, etc.


                                  Regards Sophie
                                  LondonLass_89 xXx

                                  :::@# The Secret Will Reveal Itself......After I Uncover My Great Ancestors Of The Past....**~$@

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Sophie

                                    When you say it is confirmed she is the daughter of William Holden and Sarah Marsden...how have you confirmed it?

                                    Just off to see when Sarah Marsden died.

                                    UPDATE - Sarah Holden, nee Marsden died aged 29 in 1853. I don't have the death cert, but there is a corresponding death entry on Lancsbmd. The next Sarah Holden to die in Darwen wasn't till 1859 and she is the wrong age to be Sarah Marsden.

                                    OC
                                    Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 12-01-08, 00:20.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Just as I was giving up hope of getting any further back with my Holdens from Darwen, I came across this thread, and a glimmer of hope..…

                                      My great-great grandfather, Robert Holden was born in Shuttleworth after the family moved there in 1841 or 1842, but his parents Thomas Holden and Anne (Greenhalgh?) and his four elder brothers William, James, Thomas and Christopher were all born in Darwen. On one of the censuses, Thomas Senior says he was born in Over Darwen.

                                      Looking for a birth for him, (variously born anywhere from 1805 – 11, depending on which census or his age at death in 1886 you believe) I’ve found far too many options to work out which is him, and was about to wander off down another branch – reluctantly, as I actually was born a Holden. I did wonder, because he called his first son William, whether he might be the Thomas baptised 15 Sep 1805 at St James, Darwen, the son of William Holden & Mary, (abode Over Darwen), but I’ve no way of being sure.

                                      I’d be eternally grateful to you, OC, if you could tell me whether my ancestors appear in your tree. I’d LOVE to be descended from Owd Timothy o’ th' Looms, as so far my tree has been less interesting that anyone’s that I have ever heard of, including Michael Parkinson…
                                      Last edited by Louise Mumford; 15-11-11, 22:08.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Hello Louise

                                        I'm sorry but i cannot help with this family as I don't recognise any of them. The only hint or clue I can give you is - the name Christopher (Kester) comes from the Marsden family and so does Susannah. I don't have any Greenhalghs in my tree either, so I think this is a "lost" branch of the Holden family.

                                        Sorry I cannot be more helpful.

                                        OC

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