Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Headache!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Headache!

    My head is hurting so much I don't know if I can even explain my problem, lol!

    FACT: Marriage cert 25 August 1876.

    William Mckenzie age 21, (illiterate) Shore Labourer, bachelor.
    Father William McKenzie, Carter. (correct)
    Mother: Agness Gerrie, deceased (*problem 1)

    to

    Elizabeth Keith Wyness, 20, spinster.
    Father John Nisbett Wyness Ship's carpenter journeyman (correct)
    Mother: Elsie Gerrie (deceased) (*problem 2)

    Problem 1.

    I have found William McKenzie, a carter, in 1851,61 and 71, at the same address thankfully.

    In 1851, he has a daughter, Alexandrina aged 3.
    A servant, Agnes GARIOCH aged 35
    An orphan boy, John Cattenach aged 6.

    (No wife at home, and Scottish census do not state married, widower, etc)

    In 1861, William has a wife, AGNES, a DAUGHTER Alexander,aged 12, a son William (my man) aged 7 and a son Robert aged 1. Also, a boarder, John CATTO, aged 16.

    (I suspect the information is wildly mistranscribed as the ages are all over the place - but it is the right address and the right occupation, and follows through to 1871)

    I have found birth registrations for my William,(1856) and for a Betsy Dow McKenzie (1859) parents William McKenzie and Agnes GARIOCH.

    No marriage between William Mackenzie and Agnes Garioch (or Gerrie/y) BUT a marriage between William and Agnes WILSON in 1844. No baptisms for Alexandrina and Robert.

    So - was Agness a Garioch or a Gerrie? William Junior calls a daughter Agnes Gerrie. Or were there two Agnesses?

    Problem 2.

    John Nisbett Wyness married Elspet Douglas GRAY (from church records).
    Umpteen children, including Elspet Nicol Wyness and Elizabeth Wyness. All baptisms found EXCEPT Elizabeth Keith Wyness!!!

    Orphan John Catto turns out to be the son of one Elspet Nicol Wyness...

    Is it safe to assume, haha, that as William McKenzie was illiterate, he did not realise that the Minister had recorded his mother's name wrong, and that of his wife's mother???

    I honestly don't expect any help with this, but I needed to write it down to clear my head (I think).

    OC

  • #2
    Hi OC

    Problem 1

    I did a quick google search and came up with an Anderson f.h. page which shows that (at least in their family) Garioch and Gerrie and Herragerry seem to be interchangeable. So maybe it was not a "mistake" as such, just a different way of recording the name.

    You did check for Alexandrina's birth/baptism under Agnes name, didn't you ?

    Could John Cattenach and John Catto be the same person ?

    Problem 2
    are you sure Elizabeth Keith Wyness and Elizabeth Wyness are not the same person ?

    Elspet -Elsie - Gray- Gerrie -Garioch - Agness sister ??


    Does this help, or just muddy the waters, wish I had a scotlandspeople sub to look at the originals for you !!

    I have a few baptisms and marriages that I cannot find in the scotlands people databases, some people must have not bothered with baptisms, but I would have thought it was rarer than it seems.

    Di
    Last edited by dicole; 04-01-08, 03:51.
    Diane
    Sydney Australia
    Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

    Comment


    • #3
      OC......I've told you before....Scotland is like nowhere else. They probably like it that way!!!

      When you find a name in an English record, whether census or BMD etc, and the names are even slightly similar, you just expect one to be misspelt or mistranscribed.

      In Scotland they are interchangeable.

      Take, as an easy example, Jane. Jane can be Jane, Jean, Jessie or Janet. Donald and Daniel are interchangeable. That's different to Elizabeth, Liz, Betty, Libby. These are nicknames or pet names.

      The Scottish also have interchangeable surnames.

      Gerrie and Garioch are interchangeable.

      (((((((((hands OC panadol.....and scotch....maybe not scotch....brandy))))))))

      Comment


      • #4
        OC......just found!!! Catto and Cattenach are also interchangeable.

        Comment


        • #5
          I was going to say are they English and Gaelic versions of the same name and it depended on who was writing it depending on which version you got?
          Click here to order your BMD certificates for England and Wales for only £9.25 General Register Office

          Do you have camera? Click here to see if you can help Places of Worship

          Jacob Sudders born in Prussia c.1775 married Alice Pidgeon in 1800 in Gorelston. Do you know where Jacob was born?

          Comment


          • #6
            OC

            I advise two aspirin rather than two agnesses!
            ~ with love from Little Nell~
            Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

            Comment


            • #7
              Pretty certain John Cattenach and John Catto are one and the same - couldn't find ANY Cattenachs, so can cautiously assume it is the same person. He only becomes mildly interesting because his mother is Elspet Nicol!

              My head is clearer this morning, lol and I can accept that Gerrie and Garioch are interchangeable, and possibly that GRAY could sound like either.

              I am just uneasy that I cannot find any baptism or registration for Elizabeth (Keith) Wyness - she is in the middle of a load of kids who were all baptised.

              Her father had a sister named Elizabeth Keith Wyness and I am starting to think the worst here, i.e. she was the child of Elizabeth Keith, and the niece John Nisbett Wyness.

              OC

              Comment


              • #8
                Baptism under Elizabeth Keith Nisbet?

                (Hope I'm not being too silly here) - but I looked at Hugh Wallis's middle name search for "Keith", which brought up "Elizabeth Keith Nisbet born 13 July 1856 to father John Nisbet and Elspet Douglas Gray at St. Nicholas, Aberdeen" - perhaps the baptism is under her father's middle name, if you are checking a film?

                (After that I went to Scotland's People to check for birth of Elizabeth Nisbet, which was taking forever, got frustrated and put in "Wyness" which brought up the Elizabeth Wyness birth - I do think her mother's name is "Gray" from the certificate).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Beth

                  You little marvel, you! I checked in case she had been misregistered as KEITH, but never considered Nisbett!!!

                  I downloaded her death cert earlier today, died aged 26 in 1881, - she is registered as Elizabeth Keith McKenzie, father John Nisbett Wyness, mother ELSPET m.s. GRAY. So I am confident now that I had the parents correct, and the marriage cert was just a muckup of similar sounding names.

                  Now all I have to do is find out what names the two girls are hiding under, after their mother's death in 1881 - Agnes possibly pops up in 1901, with her STEPMOTHER (oh, deep joy)...no father around, no remarriage found for father....

                  OC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you for all your IGI information on GR which gave me the courage to venture a visit to an LDS centre.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Beth

                      I meant to say earlier, but was too excited, lol - thankyou for the reminder about Hugh Wallis middle names - I had completely forgotten about that because I have never had to use it for my English lot.

                      Off to stuff in some more middle names, lol - the Scots have them aplenty!

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OC, have you actually looked at the image(s) for the census entries or just the transcriptions? The 1851 Scottish census certainly does have a column for marital status but maybe ancestry don't bother transcribing it? You can look at the image on Scotland's People.
                        KiteRunner

                        Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                        (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Kite

                          I am just about to don a worried expression and tackle SP census images. I do remember the last time I tried this, I got hopelessly lost and wasted ££££ in credits.

                          However, having already found the transcribed entries on Ancestry should make the search a little easier!

                          BTW - was it you who said you had expired credits on SP, which reactivated themselves when you bought some more? Same here - I had seven expired credits from April last year. Soon as I topped them up I was able to use them. What a strange system.

                          OC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes, I was used to them being reactivated when I bought some more - what I found strange just last week was that I had some which it said had expired but it still let me use them without buying any more!
                            KiteRunner

                            Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
                            (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OC .... There was an Elizabeth Keith born to an Elizabeth Keith in Nigg, Kincardine, Scotland in July 1961. I know this Elizabeth was only 15yrs at the time of the marriage between William and Elizabeth but even though it was legal back then people still lied.

                              I know the Wyness surname isn't there but like you said... John Wyness sister was an Elizabeth Keith Wyness is it possible that she dropped the Wyness part of her name when registering the birth?

                              As for the name mix up..... one of my lot (brother of 2xGreat grandfather) was the informant on the birth cert of his first child.
                              I don't know if the guy was drunk or stupid but when the question Mothers Name and Maiden surname came up, not realising the question meant mother of child, he gave his own mothers name and maiden name

                              This poor child was born in 1887 and went through life with his Granny listed as his mother on his birth cert.

                              Also on the marriage cert of OH's Great Grandparents, the groom gives his mothers christian name correctly but then instead of giving her maiden surname he gave her mother before her's. (The surname in this case by the way... McKenzie) :D
                              With Experience comes Realisation

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Shaz

                                LOL, think I had already worked out that McKenzie = Thick!

                                Having seen the record that Beth so cleverly found for me, I am confident this is my woman.

                                But I will also look at the Elizabeth Keith you found - she is bound to be a relative, as the Keith middle name comes from a previous marriage in the Wyness family.

                                The only saving grace with this lot - they tended to stay put, so I can usually find them eventually by address, if not by name - one lot have been mistranscribed as Wemyss, and the younger children as WUMS!! Never a truer word was spoken.

                                OC

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  (Again, hoping this is right) - William McKenzie born April seventh 1855 (the year registration began, so extra details - hang on to your hats!). Father, William McKenzie, carter, birthplace, Old Machar, 33years. [Where and when married; issue living and deceased]- 1846 Dundee, I girl living and 1 boy and one girl dead. Mother, Agnes McKenzie, maiden name Garioch, her fourth child, 37 years, birthplace, Aberdeen.

                                  'Fraid I can't read the address properly -19 Wales(?) Street Aberdeen?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Scotlandspeople changed from credits only being available for a few days duration to 90 days which is probably why you could still use them.

                                    Also when you buy another subscription the credits include the new credits bought and the unused credits too.

                                    Unfortunately my credits don't last long enough to carry forward!!!!!



                                    Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Beth

                                      Oh, wonderful!!! And no wonder I couldn't find their marriage if it was in Dundee, I was looking entirely in Aberdeen and Banff!


                                      Didn't know about the other child either. Could the address be Albion St? They lived there for at least 20 years.

                                      Beth, you must have used credits for this. Please let me know when I can return the favour. Thankyou very much indeed!

                                      OC

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Going o /t - someone on the tips board on GR is asking about Holdens.
                                        Joy

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X