Railway ancesters

[Lynn The Forest Fan]

My pleasure Louise

[Louise]

That should be recorded in the equivalent of an accident book. There may also be local newspaper entries?

Christine

Yes. I reckon there should be more info on this and it is on my list of things to look into. My only problem is that my list is very long (and growing!) so it may take me a while to get round to following up!!!

[Simon]

Hi Lynn,

My relative, William Musgrove (1861 to 1901) was employed in various positions on the new railways, specifically at Paddington by Great Western Railways (GWR). He was described at various times as being a cleaner, a porter, a general labourer, an engine boiler washer and an engineer. However, on his son’s marriage certificate after his death it described him as a “Locomotive Engine Driver”.

As I was curious as to whether he had ever been a real engine driver, as obviously I dreamed of being one as a young boy, I spent the day at Kew going through various records. Found him a few times mainly in the GWR staff records showing his job description and his weekly pay. I was able to confirm he was certainly at the bottom end of the work force but, sadly, never an engine driver.

As he died when his son was just a baby it is possible that he was told by his mother that his father did drive the locomotives and he believed it enough to use it as his father’s profession when he married years later.

The records are interesting but there are so many it is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Don’t expect too much and you won’t be disappointed.

Good luck !

[Lynn The Forest Fan]

Thanks Simon, he was listed as a fireman in 1881 & then a driver in 1891 & 1901, his death cert & will both show his occupation as retired railway engine driver. I won't get my hopes up too much

[Anne in Carlisle]

Lynn, that was the usual progression of a railway career to driver. You started as a 'cleaner' (cleaning out the firebox and cleaning the loco); then promoted to fireman; then promoted to driver - of progressively more prestigious trains. Sadly it does sound as if he was a bit too old to have driven the Golden Arrow - but he was at least driving the route it took!!!

Anne

[Lynn The Forest Fan]

Yes Anne, he maybe drove the fore runner of the Golden Arrow Both his older brother & his son worked on the railway, although his son wasn't a driver.

[Uncle John]

Thanks Christine, its nice to know that someone has had success with these records. I spoke to my Mum about it & she confirmed that he used to drive trains from Victoria to Dover, so I have got the right rail company. She said that the Golden Arrow story is what she had been told, but it might not have been correct, she was only young when he died & there isn't really anyone left to ask.

In 1899 the South Eastern Railway (SER) and the London Chatham and Dover Railway (LCDR) formed a joint operation, the South Eastern and Chatham (SECR).

Railways in Dover - General History

[Lynn The Forest Fan]

Thanks for that John, it is always helpful to know which companies merged with which.

[Tricia Green]

Hi

May I ask, on your thread, if anyone can tell me what an 'engineman' would have done in 1861. Cleaning, stoking, driving or ??

thanks
Trish

[Anne in Carlisle]

Trish, 'engineman' could cover a whole load of jobs! What sort of area did he live in? If it was a mining or manufacturing area he may have been looking after a stationary engine. Being a driver was fairly well thought of and he would probably have described himself as that if he did drive.

Anne

[Uncle John]

A colliery engineman was responsible for operating the winding engine that sent the cages up and down the shafts. There was a similar job on some railways and quarries where the wagons were pulled by rope on an "inclined plane" that was too steep for railway locomotives.

[Tricia Green]

When he married in 1854, he was a cleaner for GWR and 1861 shows him with
'S Devon Railway' as 'Engineman'


Trish

[Uncle John]

When he married in 1854, he was a cleaner for GWR and 1861 shows him with
'S Devon Railway' as 'Engineman'

It's pretty likely he was an engine-driver. Here's a bit of history for you

Plymouth, South Devon Railway (SDR)

[Lensgirl]

Adding onto this, i have a few "railway plate layers" would these be there? I have looked on the Cheshire index with no luck either

[Tricia Green]

Thanks Uncle John..will go and have a look at it.

Trish

[Uncle John]

Adding onto this, i have a few "railway plate layers" would these be there? I have looked on the Cheshire index with no luck either

Plate-layers were the lowest form of life looking after the tracks. The term "platelayer" comes from the original wagonways which used plain wheels running on flanged rails or "plates".

A lengthman was responsible for inspecting and maintaining his "length" of track, usually several miles, with a gang of platelayers to do the heavy work.