Does my method make sense?

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

I have a rellie that i'm struggling with. Or should i say he had a son i'm struggling with, no idea when the son was born or who his mother may be.

Let me explain;

Frederick Chambers b 27/01/1886. (have the cert).
He married Kate Sylvester 06/10/1913 in Lincoln. (have the cert).

The cert shows Kate as resident in Gresham St, Lincoln and aged 25.

In 1915 there is an entry for a death in the name of Kate Chambers, Jan-Mar qtr aged 26 and a burial record Kate Chambers Abode St Faith,Gresham St Buried 03/04/1915 Age 26

Frederick Chambers died in 1936 (i have the cert, residence is Gresham Street).

Jump forwards to 1951 and Freds' mother writes a will, "to my grandson
XXXXXX Chambers, (son of my late son Frederick) the sum of £100".


There is only one likely re-marriage for Frederick after Kate died, there are several potential births for the son but none match with the possible mmn.

Seeing as Fred lived in the same street for at least 23 years i was thinking of checking the electoral roll, hoping to find the name of a possible second wife and possibly suddenly finding the name of the son appearing, this might give a clue as to year of birth and thus avoiding wrong certificates.

Apart from chancing a couple of wrong certs for births and marriages is there anything else to check?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Ahem! Is it possible that the grandson was NOT the child of a marriage???

Otherwise, I think your method is sound. Long old trawl though.

OC

[Little Nell]

Assuming child may have been born out of wedlock, he may have been registered with mother's surname and adopted father's later. Any other clues in the Will?

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

His reference in the will is the one and only reference to him i have come across. There is no other reference to other family connected to Frederick (either wife or children). I had considered he may have been "taken in" shall we say but the illegitimate route hadn't entered my head. Doh!!

Now thinking about it Gresham Street runs even further back than the marriage on some certs i have, i should also check the street for potential clues for a period before and after the last known instances of the family. After all, the granny who made the will owned at least one house in the street and several more in adjacent streets.

I checked a couple some time ago and her children/grandchildren were all occupiers at some point, when she died in 1956 each known house she owned suddenly had new occupiers by the '57/'58 register.


Hmmm.......... this thinking outloud lark seems to be working :D:D

[KiteRunner]

Just checking - he was a bachelor when he married Kate, wasn't he?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Glen

If you can get hold of the Rates book, that might help, as in those days it was the house OWNER who usually paid the rates. It might turn up more properties to check out.

OC

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Just checking - he was a bachelor when he married Kate, wasn't he?

Bachelor and spinster respectively.

OC

I should really follow your suggestion for each house, i have certs that cover fifty or so years for half a dozen addresses, rumour was that granny rented them out and the electoral rolls and certs seem to support this. I find it hard to see how eight or nine family groups could be associated to half a dozen or so houses for over fifty years otherwise.

Strangely though when the estate was settled it only amounted to four hundred pounds, i did wonder how much a three storey property in Lincoln would have been worth at the time (there are at least two of that type) as the estate value seems a bit below what i would have expected. The will doesn't actually state there were any properties owned but seeing as she lived to be 101 then she must have had some form of income from somewhere.

Another mystery.

[lesley141]

Do you know the cause of death for Kate ?
Is it possible that the grandson was her son and maybe she died in childbirth ?

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Do you know the cause of death for Kate ?
Is it possible that the grandson was her son and maybe she died in childbirth ?

I'm just about to order the cert, i did wonder if the cause of death might be childbirth related, seems odd though that the death would be registered and not the birth of the child if the two events are linked.

[Mary from Italy]

Have you checked for Sylvester births pre-1913?

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Hi Mary

I checked for a couple of years but haven't found anything to match the christian name i have.

Frederick and his life have always been a bit of a mystery for some reason. Part of the problem is that the current living descendants never really knew about him , they were all born long after he died and despite the family living in a small area none of them seem to know what the others were doing.

Frederick was one of five children and had another five half siblings, between these 10 i have found over 60 children and they are all concentrated within a small area and 20 or so years.

It's like a 10,000 piece puzzle without a picture and they only use four or five christian names for the male line:(:(

[Olde Crone Holden]

Glen

The old lady may have sold the houses cheaply to her relatives, which would explain the low estate value at death, and the change of ownership shortly after her death!

When my great grandfather died, everyone was very surprised that his estate amounted to nearly nothing - he owned at least five houses and had had a good pension.

Turned out he had mortgaged the properties up to the hilt, used the capital to do some essential maintenace and upgrading to the houses and lived off the rest.

The houses he owned had all been tenanted by various family members who paid little or no rent for donkey's years, and he was financially supporting at least two of those families anyway.

All this came to light at a family funeral, when the obligatory row broke out, and it was revealed that GGF had been supporting his cousin's family for about 30 years - his cousin was in a long-stay mental hospital.

OC

[Glen in Tinsel Knickers]

Thanks OC,

That could be a possibility, i doubt i will ever know for sure given the large number of stepchildren and grandchildren involved. As she outlived all her children except one and left monies to her daughter and ten of her grandchildren (heaven knows who is and isn't around nowadays from that lot) it would be interesting but difficult to discover.

She was a character for sure though, in the press clipping for ger 100th birthday she claimed to "smoke occassionaly" and drink "only on the orders of the doctor". At least three family members have said it is a wonder she didn't self combust from the combination of alcohol fumes and ciggies in her last 30 years :D:D