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  • birth date?

    Sorry if it sounds a bit muddled but getting nowhere fast with him.

    My father in laws age is stated as 22 years when he married on the 31st March 1956.
    Am I right in estimating his birth to be between March 1933 and March 1934? I have gone through the years 1933/34/35 to try and locate his birth, giving me several potential births. I’ve tried to narrow the search area of birth registration to where we believe the family to have lived.

    All we know from the family members who knew him (there was a lot of bitterness after they separated in the early 1960s and no contact with the paternal family throughout the last 40 years), is that his family lived in a particular area and that as far as they are aware, always lived in the same place.

    I have his fathers name and trade from the marriage certificate, but no details whatsoever to identify other family members. He (f.i.l) died in 1979 and I have this registration giving only an estimated year of birth as 1934, (m.i.l. died in 1968). .

    I’ve already received 2 birth certificates for him, one which has the correct father’s name, but the area and trade are different to what we are led to believe as it was a neighbouring district. The other is wrong on both counts.

    How else can I try to narrow this down? Is it likely a butchers’ assistant would become a gardener in the 1930-1950’s time scale? Both areas were predominantly mining areas and are only about 7 miles apart. Also as I have another potential match, what’s the likelihood of him being Ronnie on B.C and Ronald on M.C?

    Thanks for any suggestions.

    Jozy

  • #2
    Jozy, on the last three marriage certs I got each spouse had increased there age by a few years, maybe he did that?.
    I also have Frederick on a marr cert and Fred on the bith cert and James on a birth cert and then on the marr cert he had changed to Billy?
    Why do they do this to us lol..:D




    ]

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    • #3
      If you have the address where he was living when he got married, you could perhaps look up the electoral roll for that address in 1956 and then backwards and forwards from there to see who else was in the household (if he had younger brothers and sisters then they should start appearing on the list when they reached voting age - if his family stayed at the same address!) Hopefully you will get some clues from this.

      The electoral roll is very unlikely to be online though; you will need to go to the record office or library for that area to look at it.
      KiteRunner

      Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
      (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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      • #4
        Thanks for the suggestions. So it looks like a visit to the main library or West Yorkshire archives, yet another delay as I will not be able to do this until i get more holidays, no more days off in the near future.

        Oh well, :D looks like thats the Easter break allocated.

        Thanks again

        Jozy

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        • #5
          Jozy

          could you not email the Library or WYA and ask them to look on your behalf?

          or have you had a look in the wiki to see if any member has offered lookups at the WYA ?? (on the Yorks page)
          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

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          • #6
            Keep in mind that you have a World War II bang in the middle of your dates and if your father in laws dad called up he could have suffered an injury that meant he could no longer do the job he had pre-war.

            Or perhaps when he returned he struggled to get a job back in his old trade so sought out a new one.

            The electoral roles or local directories is probably your best bet for pinpointing the family and their movements.

            Zoe
            Zoe in London

            Cio che Dio vuole, io voglio ~ What God wills, I will

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            • #7
              Zoe has a good point there - a Butcher might have come back from the war having lost his taste for killing etc.

              Also, don't get too hung up on the age of 22 at marriage - he might have been younger. If you are going to lie about your age, 22 looks more convincing than 21!

              And my grandparents, Herbert and Ethel (lol) became Seymour and Eithlina for their marriage lines. Good job we had that cert in the family, otherwise I'd still be looking.

              OC

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              • #8
                I've just been speaking to someone who's ancestor didn't like her given names of Gertrude something, and opted for Phyllis, which her fiancé had decided must be her name because "she looked like a Phyllis". Thereafter she has always been known as Phyllis. What has that done to some future one's research efforts!

                Christine
                Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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                • #9
                  I hate my given name, and in my teenage years was very embarrassed by it, so I used to announce myself as Jo, pmsl.

                  Luckily, none of the lads ever lasted long, otherwise I would have had to be married as Jo, to save embarrassing explanations.

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    I see where you are coming from. I just hoped I had overlooked something glaringly obvious to an outsider.

                    I was taking it for granted that the age for F.i.l was correct as M.i.l was definitely 21 yrs. There has been no mention of any war activity by F.i ls family (M.i.ls all did there bit, in forces or the mines), only what his trade was and so we were told, had always been. But this is 50+yr old info on the family of a not very popular person, so who's about that can or will contradict it.

                    I still think that going from a 'shop' job to an out door, physical one didn't seem likely to me, especially as he seems to have remained in this for the rest of the time.

                    The bit about the name that throws me is that Ronnie seems more of an aquired 'pet' name (but there is a 'Ronnie' birth which may fit time and location) and therefore strange to have changed, although I can see the probability of the formal Ronald seeming more 'upmarket' for the marriage.

                    I may have to try getting another family member to look at the records for me, but typically they're not interested in family history so it may be a no go, until Easter time.

                    Thanks again for suggestions.

                    Jozy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jozy

                      Some Vicars got very uptight about what they consider to be pet names. The Vicar may have thought that Ronald was a correct name, Ronnie was not, and took it upon himself to formalise the name.

                      The name Mally, for a girl, was very popular in Lancashire in the 1700s and 1800s. One Vicar thundered from the pulpit about this heathenish name and refused to baptise any girl with the name - it had to be Mary instead.

                      So, there they all are, baptised as Mary...and never used that name again as long as they lived!

                      As for butchery being a "shop job", no, it wasn't - that would be a butchery assistant. A butcher would have slaughtered the animals and cut them up - hard, physical, unpleasant work and not necessarily attached to a shop - could have worked in a slaughterhouse, or on a farm, or completely independently. And it isn't very far from a farm to a gardener...one or two of my farmers did just that.

                      I don't think butchery was a reserved occupation during WW2, so if he was of an age to fight, he would have been called up.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        Have you considered the possibility that he wasn't registered in his father's name? (I hope this doesn't offend) The reason I ask is that my g grandfather's birth reg threw me for ages because I was looking for the surname we knew him as and tallied with the details on his m cert. I finally found it when I looked under his mother's surname which it now transpires he was known by right up to his marriage. Obviously his parents hadn't married.

                        Have you found a marriage for fil's parents?

                        Jackie
                        Jackie

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                        • #13
                          Night Owl, not offended in the least, as I say I have potential births but am trying to narrow it down if possible. Country wide there is probably 100+ births that could fit, so narrowing by known facts first for obvious reasons.

                          Cannot find a marriage for f.i.l parents as so far, I only have his fathers name, no other details, just what was on f.i.l marriage cert:(, the name although not a Smith, is by no means an unusual one. This is why I'm finding it so confusing, do not know if how many siblings existed, although hubby seems to think he had cousins on his Dads side so there must have been some about.

                          O.C., on looking at the m.c again, it does say butchers assistant, for his fathers trade.

                          I know the location of the potential birth parents address (the butchery one), I went to school on the street where the house was/is and do remember an old shop on the corner, although by the mid 1960's it sold sweets and i think bread, probably other things but I only remember what I thought to be important at the time ;).

                          It is in a built up area, some semis which at a guess I would date to post war (?1950's, I remember tales being told of bombs in the area during the war) plus a good mix of standard terraced and many large Victorian(?) 3 story terraced properties 4, 5 & 6 bedrooms, with some lovely older detached properties, with large gardens all within a 10 min walk of the shop. As incidentally was the local General Hospital and the County Asylum, ---- do I start worrying now?

                          Jozy

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