Need your opinion please

[Lyn A]

No Nell from the actual census images which show his right age.

No, Gert... 1871 images definitely says 27 (b. abt 1843/44) and 1881 clearly says 37 (b. abt 1843/44)
In 1861, he may have lied about his age to get the job, or his employer may have just guessed.

[Ozzie Gert]

You are right Lyn, just checked the Time Line i have written on him and he also joined the police force on Sept 20 1875 aged 32

He died June 25 1895 aged 51 years and 7 Months, which would put his birth some where in the 4th quarter

[Lyn A]

I do wish that we could find George, though.

[Ozzie Gert]

I have been looking for George off and on for over 12 months now.

[Ozzie Gert]

The only reference to a George Tomlinson a blacksmith was in 1889, when he was charged for being drunk and disorderly in Sawley Derbyshire, but as it didn`t give an age, i`m not sure its the same George

[Lyn A]

1889...that sounds more like he could be John's son, rather than father. But you never know!! LOL!!

I have searched & re-searched 1851 for a George, Blacksmith, without any joy. I also looked for a John, just in case your contact is right and he was calling himself John in 1851. No joy there, either....can't recall coming across the family your contact mentions with grandmother Hannah, either......
....Sorry, yes I did. Just missed seeing Grandma!! LOL

[Lyn A]

I would still be very wary, unless she can provide documentation. I have helped to unravell a couple of really mixed up trees...both of them took months and many headaches. Both times I really thought that I would go nuts before we got it sorted.

[Ozzie Gert]

John`s son George born 1866 was a picture frame maker.

Thank you for trying to help Lyn, i might have to put this away again, until something else peeks my interest

[Ozzie Gert]

I will be careful Lyn, i have asked her to confirm where her grandfather William and my grandfather John was Born.

[Lyn A]

Did you know that there was a marriage for a George Tomlinson in 1840 in Belper? Dec Qtr 1840 19 / 385.

Wonder if he was a Blacksmith?

[Ozzie Gert]

I have that on some notes i`ve just come across, not sure why i haven`t followed it up, maybe because i couldn`t find him on the census as a blacksmith

[KiteRunner]

It sounds to me as though your contact has just traced him back through the censuses and GRO indexes rather than by getting certificates, so I would certainly be dubious about any info from their tree.

Have you already tried to trace the "other" John (the one who seems to be the son of a John instead of a George) forwards to see if he appears elsewhere on the census(es) that you have your John on?

[Ozzie Gert]

Thank you for your interest Kite, yes John born 1864, in Derby the son of my John born 1842? in Belper, he married a Beatrice Sarah Brown in 1890 in Kent, then both parents abandoned their 5 children around 1902, as they were put into an orphanage, i am in touch with 2 of this couples gt grandaughters, but they know as much as than i do. John Died in Derby in 1841, but we have never found a death for Beatrice.

[Ozzie Gert]

I have just had another message from my contact and her grandfather was the one born in Matlock that Nell and Lyn found, so not the same man.

I still can`t work out how this contact has the same names and dates of birth of the children of my John and Mary, unless she has married her John to the wrong person.

Thank you all for your help.

Sylvia

[KiteRunner]

Sorry, Sylvia, I think my reply may have been confusing - either that or I have misunderstood the thread! I thought you had a John who was the son of George, but you had found a possible on the censuses, the right age, but whose father was John instead of George? All I was really trying to ask was whether you had tried looking for that one on the later censuses to see if there really were two Johns?

[samesizedfeet]

Is the only reference you have to his father on his marriage certificate?

i.e. you've not found him in any census with parents at all?

I'd be inclined to think that this could be an illegitimate birth and George is a figment of his imagination for his wedding. or George is a stepfather and the water shave been muddied on the marriage certificate.

Have you done a trawl of all people born Belper give or take a year or two to see how many possibles it throws up for him being giving his stepfathers name on census by mistake.

[Ozzie Gert]

Kite...you are right, John Tomlinson born Belper c1842? has George Tomlinson as his father on his marriage cert, John also had a son, John William Tomlinson born Derby 1864, who i thought you meant i had traced through the census.

The earliest i have found John Tomlinson born 1842? is on the 1861 census, working as a groom for the Rector of Norbury aged 19.

1863.. he marries Mary Spencer age 21
1871... he is an Ostler in Derby age 27
1875.. joins Derby police force age 32
1881...Police constable age 36
1891...police constable age 47
1895..dies in June age 51 years and 7 months

Unfortunatly the police records i have do not give a birth date.

Sylvia

[Ozzie Gert]

Zoe.. the only reference i have of George Tomlinson is on Johns marriage cert

I have not found John with parents or siblings on any census, not sure if he has any siblings.

I have trawled through Belper, several times looking for both George and John, BMDs and census.

The only possible baptism i found on the IGI, for John was an adult in 1861 in Norbury and Roston, which only listed a mother Mary. Someone checked this at Derby RO for me and he was 19 and a labourer, but no father was listed.

[Lyn A]

I have that on some notes i`ve just come across, not sure why i haven`t followed it up, maybe because i couldn`t find him on the census as a blacksmith

I just wondered if he might have been the Blacksmith.
There are a few deaths in the 1840s that could be George, so his wife may have remarried by 1851 and John could have been enumerated under his stepfather's name.
Hust a thought.

[Ozzie Gert]

Thats a possibility i hadn`t thought of Lyn, any ideas how to find someone like that.

I even tried looking for Blacksmiths called George Tomlinson in Derbyshire in 1841, without any luck, so either he wasn`t there yet or wasn`t born there.

Sylvia