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    William John Davies - research help

    Hi
    I am new to this site and looking for some help. I've hit a brick wall with research on my grandfather's side.

    My grandad, William John Davies, was born on 18th December 1910. He always told me he was born in the Rhondda but the 1911 census says he was born in Pentre, Glamorgan. The census lists his dad as John Davies as Head and Annie as John's spouse. It states they were married for 4 years at the time of the census indicating that they were married around 1907.

    I have no other information as all the family have passed away. I have searched for around 3 weeks now to try to find my grandad's mother's maiden name to no avail. I found several William John Davies born in Pontypridd (correct reg district I believe) in the last quarter of 1910 and first quarter of 1911. From there I found two potentials - one with the name Jones and one with the name Anthony. However, I can't find any marriages between a John Davies and an Annie Jones nor Annie Anthony.

    I'm getting very frustrated and can't move any further. If anybody is able to help I would really appreciate it.

    Thank you
    Caroline

    #2
    Pentre , Glamorgan is in the Area of the Rhondda Valley so your grandad was correct. It does say that on the 1911 census.

    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...97&usePUB=true
    Kat

    Comment


      #3
      1939 Register

      10 Tyn-Y-Banwen Road, Merthyr Tydfil C.B., Glamorganshire, Wales

      William J B Davies 18 Dec 1910 Male Pearl Assurance Agent Married
      Verbena M Davies 19 Oct 1911 Female Unpaid House Duties Married
      Lily E Davies 11 Jul 1889 Female Unpaid House Duties Widowed

      There are 2 redacted persons.

      Any idea who Lily might be?
      Last edited by Katarzyna; 11-12-19, 14:50.
      Kat

      Comment


        #4
        Not to be confused with this Family.

        https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

        John W Davies b 9 Jun 1884 Occ: Insurance Superintendent
        Annie Davies b 7 Mar 1888
        William J Davies 12 Jan 1910 Car Salesman
        Harold Davies 1917 Shipping Clerk Unemployed (This one's mmn is Mason)
        Catherine Davies
        Rachel M Baker
        Last edited by Katarzyna; 11-12-19, 15:29.
        Kat

        Comment


          #5
          Caroline ............

          is it possible that your grandparents were not married at the time, but later married?

          How old were they on the 1911 Census? Could either of them have been of an age to have been previously married?

          Try extending your search 20 or 30 years.

          Did your grandfather ever talk about any siblings? Can you find their birth?
          My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

          Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Caroline and welcome to FTF
            If you are sure about your Grandfather's date of birth I would say that the one in post #3 is the most likely.
            If it is him then his likely birth would be - DAVIES, WILLIAM JAMES BIDGOOD - MMN BIDGOOD -
            GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 833
            And his marriage Jun 1933 - Verbena M Davey Pontypridd 11a 1324 to William J B Davies
            One of the redacted ones may be a possible son born in 1936.

            You need to work backwards though with certificates to be sure. What certificates have you got so far?
            Any information you can give us would be useful, but remember not to give the names of anyone who is still living (or who may still be alive).
            Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

            Comment


              #7
              Nice find Chrissie Thank goodness for a second middle name initial.

              However the only Davies/Bidgood marriage appears to be this one but although we know that 1st and 2nd names get switched around I'm not sure how Rachel becomes Annie

              Marriages Dec 1909
              BIDGOOD Rachel Williams B Swansea 11a 1822
              DAVIES William John Swansea 11a 1822

              ....and the only Annie Bidgood b1896 which means she was only 13/14 at marriage.
              Last edited by Katarzyna; 11-12-19, 22:13.
              Kat

              Comment


                #8
                This looks to be Carolines tree on ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...50107463/facts

                1939 register is in Willesden
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                  #9
                  Do you have your grandparents marriage record? Does the father's information match the 1911 census?

                  Did your grandfather have siblings? We might be able to find their birth and that may lead us to your great grandparents.

                  It may be worth getting those two births to see if the mother's had additional names. Ie maiden names are jones and anthony, but they may have been widows when marrying your great grandfather, so won't be marrying under those names. "annie davies formerly smith previously jones/anthony".

                  Comment


                    #10
                    interesting that there are 2 with same name and same birth date, so already hard to tell which is which.

                    I am assuming that you are not even sure if Annie was indeed his mother? It is just the census?

                    Looks like the start will be the marriage record, and get the fathers name and occupation.
                    Carolyn
                    Family Tree site

                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                    Comment


                      #11
                      A Swansea marriage doesn't appear right to me because Annie was born in Caerphilly and John in the Rhondda.
                      Something not right here.
                      Certificates are the way to go first - marriage and birth for your Grandad. Do you know if Verbena is correct?
                      People often used to put the names they were known by on censuses not necessarily what was on their birth certs. John may be really William John and Annie could be Elsie Ann for all we know My mum was a Muriel but always known as Kate - from Kathleen her middle name.
                      Kat

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                        interesting that there are 2 with same name and same birth date, so already hard to tell which is which.

                        I am assuming that you are not even sure if Annie was indeed his mother? It is just the census?

                        Looks like the start will be the marriage record, and get the fathers name and occupation.
                        Caroline has his date of birth so the 1939 one for William and Verbena looks to be the correct one.

                        I think maybe there is a family connection with both of them being in Insurance as is the father John on 1911 - or just an almighty coincidence LOL!
                        Last edited by Katarzyna; 11-12-19, 23:16.
                        Kat

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                          A Swansea marriage doesn't appear right to me because Annie was born in Caerphilly and John in the Rhondda.
                          Something not right here.
                          Certificates are the way to go first - marriage and birth for your Grandad. Do you know if Verbena is correct?
                          People often used to put the names they were known by on censuses not necessarily what was on their birth certs. John may be really William John and Annie could be Elsie Ann for all we know My mum was a Muriel but always known as Kate - from Kathleen her middle name.
                          this is the 1939 register on Carolines tree:
                          https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...63&usePUB=true

                          married to Nora
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I am not sure how registration districts work, although Pentre is in the district of Pontypridd, Merthyr Tydfil is (although over mountains) a similar distance away, I am not sure if they could have gone there? sadly the maiden names are all good welsh names, Jones, Evans, Pugh and less popular Tudor, for the 2 quarters in question.
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I think the 1911 census belongs to the Annie and John on the 1939 census so not the one for William John born 18th December 1910.

                              The birthdates on the 1911 census match those for Annie and John on the 1939 .
                              Therefore we do not know yet exactly where he was born hence the marriage and birth certs are essential so as not to go down the wrong road,
                              Last edited by Katarzyna; 11-12-19, 23:29.
                              Kat

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                this is the 1939 register on Carolines tree:
                                https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...63&usePUB=true

                                married to Nora
                                The poster has been on line today. Perhaps she will come back and let us know what other info she has. I cannot believe there are two born on exactly the same day in the Rhondda. ahhhhh!! I'm off to bed.
                                Kat

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                                  I think the 1911 census belongs to the Annie and John on the 1939 census so not the one for William John born 18th December 1910.

                                  The birthdates on the 1911 census match those for Annie and John on the 1939 .
                                  Therefore we do not know yet exactly where he was born hence the marriage and birth certs are essential so as not to go down the wrong road,
                                  Oh yes hadn't spotted that, so the 1911 census is not the right one at all.

                                  still too many births that could be him at this stage.

                                  Marriage is the only certainty. there are some marriages on FMP for Ystradyfodwg which is in the Rhondda
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    The OP has also posted on Ancestry, and I think the answer is now there, on the Wales, General board (the family in post #1 here appears to be the wrong one).

                                    DAVIES, WILLIAM JOHN mmn ANTHONY GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 581

                                    In 1911, sharing a house at 11 Baptist Row Blaenllechau, Rhondda, are families named Davies (John, wife Mary E, children Mary Ann aged 5, Gwen Irene aged 2, and William John aged 3m) and Anthony (Mary A aged 50, mother in law of John Davies, and her children Gwilym (my wrong spelling now corrected) aged 17, Alexander aged 14 & Lily Maud, 12).

                                    William John Davies is in Willesden in 1939,
                                    Alexander Anthony married Doris M Gould in Pontypridd in 1922 and they and their daughter are also in Willesden in 1939
                                    Mary Ann Davies marries Frederick J Burt in Pontypridd in 1928, and they too are in Willesden in 1939
                                    Last edited by teasie; 11-12-19, 23:50.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      so all solved then it was the Anthony birth.
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Looks that way, although only the birth certificate will confirm it for certain.

                                        Comment

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