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    Help with handwriting please

    I've just found this new pension record on Ancestry--Fold3
    I think I know but I'd love peoples' opinions on what the writing in red says .

    Jan



    Fold3_Page_1.jpg

    #2
    Dependent Mrs M Spooner

    Illegitimate child.

    OC

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks OC that's what I thought and it's thrown me completely.
      This is my Grandfather. Some years ago I discovered that banns of marriage had been called between him and a lady called Spooner 3 times in 1914 but I couldn't find any evidence of a marriage. He married my Grandmother in 1916.
      I found what I believed to be her on the 1911 census and she was working as a servant close to where he was.
      I'm being a bit vague here because I suppose there's a slim chance that the child could still be alive.
      The lady that I think is Miss Spooner was born in 1888.
      I looked on the G R O index and nothing jumped out at me, and at the moment I can't think where else to look.

      Jan

      Comment


        #4
        I probably being a bit stupid here but I am confused by the documentation why is there a widow and a dependent? When the dependent is married.
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


          #5
          Join the club, I'm completely confused. I found what could be a tree for her on Ancestry and it looks as though she never married. Maybe she's just calling herself Mrs?

          Jan

          Comment


            #6
            Yes, I would think "Mrs" was just a courtesy title.

            OC

            Comment


              #7
              Where were the banns called, please?

              OC

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks
                The banns were called in Hindringham Norfolk. I tried to put it on here but it didn't work. If you just google Hindringham Banns you should find it.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I thought it meant Mr Emery left a widow whose maiden name was Ellen Elizabeth Spooner and her mother Mrs M Spooner was dependent on her. I was struggling to figure out what the word before child was. All I could think of was “only” but Illgt. makes sense.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Sorry folks
                    Ellen Elizabeth was his widow My Grandmother

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I would want to investigate the probable illegitimate births in Norfolk area for a child born to a female named SPOONER.

                      GRO index shows 2 in that area between 1913 and 1918, where mmn is also shown as SPOONER.

                      I haven't investigated what happened to these 2 children.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Gwyn

                        If the birth was registered as illegitimate then there should be no mmn showing. Of course, she may have lied on registration and said she was Mrs Spooner, maiden name Spooner. But yes, they need investigating.

                        OC

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'm puzzled O.C

                          I thought that illegitimate births after 1911, show mother's maiden name on the GRO index.
                          Certainly 2 births I know to be illegitimate are shown that way.

                          I thought we'd concluded that Mrs was probably not a fact.
                          Last edited by Gwyn in Kent; 01-10-19, 19:25.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by JLB View Post
                            I've just found this new pension record on Ancestry--Fold3
                            I think I know but I'd love peoples' opinions on what the writing in red says .

                            Jan

                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]20263[/ATTACH]
                            Originally posted by JLB View Post
                            Thanks OC that's what I thought and it's thrown me completely.
                            This is my Grandfather. Some years ago I discovered that banns of marriage had been called between him and a lady called Spooner 3 times in 1914 but I couldn't find any evidence of a marriage. He married my Grandmother in 1916.
                            I found what I believed to be her on the 1911 census and she was working as a servant close to where he was.
                            I'm being a bit vague here because I suppose there's a slim chance that the child could still be alive.
                            The lady that I think is Miss Spooner was born in 1888.
                            I looked on the G R O index and nothing jumped out at me, and at the moment I can't think where else to look.

                            Jan
                            Originally posted by JLB View Post
                            Sorry folks
                            Ellen Elizabeth was his widow My Grandmother
                            Have you traced all the records of your grandfather, the 'Spooner' may have a link to elsewhere to him, maybe a cousin? or living near on census? or a married sister?
                            Last edited by cbcarolyn; 01-10-19, 20:41.
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Gwyn

                              If you look at the new GRO indexes, births are shown with either a maiden name, or a blank for a maiden name. The blank indicates there is only one surname on the certificate which in turn indicates no father's name. The old GRO indexes were compiled in a different way.

                              OC

                              Comment


                                #16
                                The one in 1913 looks interesting. Over 100 years so should be OK to post

                                SPOONER, GERALD EDWARD (no mmn) GRO Reference: 1913 M Quarter in WALSINGHAM Volume 04B Page 451

                                Hindringham is in the Walsingham RD.

                                It looks like Gerald reversed his forenames by 1939

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Ah... I see what you are saying OC.... Thank you for the explanation.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Teasie

                                    Yes, I wondered about that one as well. Not familiar with the county - any baptisms on line?

                                    OC

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                      Gwyn

                                      If you look at the new GRO indexes, births are shown with either a maiden name, or a blank for a maiden name. The blank indicates there is only one surname on the certificate which in turn indicates no father's name. The old GRO indexes were compiled in a different way.

                                      OC
                                      if you use FMP it works slightly differently to GRO, you can put in the mothers name and the surname the same and it will return them, but in GRO it is harder, as you have to leave mothers name blank. All very confusing!

                                      Not sure if the link will work:

                                      https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/...ce_proximity=5
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Yes, not so easy on the GRO, but I just brought up a list of all Spooner births and skimmed through to look at the ones with no mmn.

                                        OC

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