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    Mary Torr

    Mary Torr was born about 1838 in Manchester (probably).

    In 1871 she marries Edward Carney. Before that happens though, she has several children registered as Torr, with no mmn, so I assume no father's name on birth cert.I

    Please can anyone see her in 1871 (probably Carney, she married 1st Q) or even in 1861 when she might have had Edwwrd born 1859 and Elizabeth Ann 1861.

    I am trying to work out if Edward was father to all her children and if so, why he didn't marry her sooner!

    Thanks in advance.

    OC

    #2
    I have had a quick look OC but have to go out now. I will have another look when I get chance if someone hasn't solved it by then.
    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

    Comment


      #3
      Is this it? 1871:https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...63.1543608453I don't know the names of the other childrenName: Edward CarneyAge: 33Estimated birth year: 1838Relation: HeadGender: MaleWhere born: ManchesterCivil Parish: ManchesterEcclesiastical parish: St AndrewCounty/Island: LancashireCountry: EnglandRegistration district: ManchesterSub-registration district: London RoadED, institution, or vessel: 15Household schedule number: 194Piece: 4042Folio: 108Name AgeEdward Carney 33Mary Carney 34Edward Carney 11Elizabeth Carney 10Mary Emma Carney 2Thomas Carney 1
      Carolyn
      Family Tree site

      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

      Comment


        #4
        wow sorry that was a terrible post, internet went as was on Eurostar!

        Is this it? 1871:https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...63.1543608453

        Name: Edward Carney
        Age: 33
        Estimated birth year: 1838
        Relation: Head
        Gender: Male
        Where born: Manchester
        Civil Parish: Manchester
        Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
        County/Island: Lancashire
        Country: England
        Registration district: Manchester
        Sub-registration district: London Road
        ED, institution, or vessel: 15
        Household schedule number: 194
        Piece: 4042
        Folio: 108
        Page Number: 32
        Household Members:
        Name Age
        Edward Carney 33
        Mary Carney 34
        Edward Carney 11
        Elizabeth Carney 10
        Mary Emma Carney 2
        Thomas Carney 1
        Carolyn
        Family Tree site

        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

        Comment


          #5
          Thankyou Carolyn yes, that's her.

          So annoying, I don't know who is the father of all those children!

          OC

          Comment


            #6
            Did any of the children marry OC? There might be a different father one of those certs. A slightly different situation applied in a brick wall of mine. Elaine in Spain and Mary in Italy found me a marriage of a missing Mary Morrey/Murray who had been born illegitimately in a workhouse to Ann Stockton, one of three of Ann’s children in the same situation. No father is on any of the birth certs. The couple were together with Mary in the 1841 census and also on later ones along with another one of the workhouse born girls and the numerous other children who actually were 100% theirs. Mary was always known as Morrey/Murray but I couldn’t find her marriage. The girls spotted it. After all that time she had married as Mary Stockton and no father’s name on marriage cert.

            Comment


              #7
              I think this is a red herring but transcribed as Edward Farr and Mary Tarr no children

              https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...363.1543608453
              Carolyn
              Family Tree site

              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

              Comment


                #8
                and a Mary Torr here in Gorton, Manchester, at home with parents no children, so probably another red herring.

                https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...=successSource

                such an unusual surname, guess open to mistranscribes. guess you must have found this one
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                  #9
                  GL, don't want to buy mcs, these are right at the edge of my tree, lol. I was given some information about this couple by a contact who doesn't appear to be aware of this query over paternity and I just wanted to get my ducks in a row before I query it with her.

                  Carolyn, I can't see the ancestry info as I don't have a sub, but I don't think they are mine, I have Edward in 1861 living with his mother, unmarried. Thankyou for looking though.

                  OC

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ah, just managed to find the marriages of the earlier children, two don't name any father at all, one makes up a face saving name which isn't Carney and those three all marry as Torr, so I am reasonably certain EC wasn't their father.

                    OC

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Not solveable, unless 1861 census has a clue. Maybe Edward "Farr" is her brother hence Edward being a family name. Not that helps!
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #12
                        this is the 1871 census if it helps, I have found marriage for Mary and Edward and says her fathers name is Benjamin

                        Name: Mary Torr
                        Age: 25
                        Estimated birth year: 1836
                        Relation: Daughter
                        Father's name: Benjamin Torr
                        Mother's name: Hannah Torr
                        Gender: Female
                        Where born: Gorton, Lancashire, England
                        Civil Parish: Gorton
                        Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter and St Thomas
                        County/Island: Lancashire
                        Country: England
                        Street address:


                        Occupation:


                        Condition as to marriage:


                        View image
                        Registration district: Chorlton
                        Sub-registration district: Ardwick
                        ED, institution, or vessel: 38
                        Neighbors: View others on page
                        Household schedule number: 7
                        Piece: 2875
                        Folio: 25
                        Page Number: 2
                        Household Members:
                        Name Age
                        Benjamin Torr 69
                        Hannah Torr 59
                        James Torr 34
                        Robert Torr 27
                        Mary Torr 25
                        Hannah Torr 22
                        Elizabeth Torr 14

                        is this same family? or am I in a muddle?

                        Is Edward maybe not even her child? maybe a sisters child
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Carolyn

                          Yes, I think that is the right family in 1861. Edward (1859) and Elizabeth Ann (1861) are with Mary and Edward Carney in 1871 so goodness knows where they were hiding in 1861. They were both registered as Torr but I suppose they could be her sister's children, lol!

                          OC

                          Comment

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