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    #61
    There is this death:
    Name: Florence Beaver
    Death Age: 48
    Birth Date: abt 1893
    Registration Date: Jan 1941
    Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
    Registration district: Cirencester
    Inferred County: Gloucestershire
    Volume: 6a
    Page: 1336

    They were in Rabbit Lane, Cirencester in 1936 (and Phoebe) according to election, then the nest Joseph Beaver I can see is in post 54 and he is on his own
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by vera2013 View Post

      Possible m for Joseph

      Headley, Southampton
      06/09/1915

      Joseph Beaver B 28 a Hawker, abode Lindford
      Close f William Beaver Hawker

      Florence Deane 25 S same abode f James Deane Hawker

      Both left their mark

      Witnesses William Gamblin, Alice Heather

      Vera
      did you notice that the next marriage between Frederick Barton and Phoebe Ayers were from the same address and have the same witnesses. And they went on to have a daughter Phoebe.
      Carolyn
      Family Tree site

      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

      Comment


        #63
        It's this chap Carolyn

        https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...&rhSource=1114

        Joseph here married Maria Carter which you mentioned #9

        Joseph and his father William were both fruiterers, 1911 he is a moss gatherer.

        BEAVER, IRENE MABEL CARTER
        GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in ST. GEORGE-IN-THE-EAST Volume 01C Page 282
        BEAVER, LILIAN ADA CARTER
        GRO Reference: 1907 D Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 926 Occasional Copy: C ***don't know what this means
        Elaine

        Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

        http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
        http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Elaine View Post
          It's this chap Carolyn

          https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...&rhSource=1114

          Joseph here married Maria Carter which you mentioned #9

          Joseph and his father William were both fruiterers, 1911 he is a moss gatherer.

          BEAVER, IRENE MABEL CARTER
          GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in ST. GEORGE-IN-THE-EAST Volume 01C Page 282
          BEAVER, LILIAN ADA CARTER
          GRO Reference: 1907 D Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 926 Occasional Copy: C ***don't know what this means
          Well remembered, I knew I had seen it. Moss Gatherer stuck in my mind.
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


            #65
            Don't know if these are related but wanted to note them

            Police Gazette 25 December 1917 and
            Rugby Advertiser 17 May 1929
            Attached Files
            Elaine

            Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

            http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
            http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

            Comment


              #66
              Thank you for the overwhelming response.

              Bear with me as I am new to forums.

              Joseph Beaver is part of a brick-wall that I have been trying to crack for well over 10 years. I am back to 1686 and therefore experienced spelling and transcription variation.

              Joseph Beaver
              Not being able to find record of his birth, I recently found his baptism (Linchmere, Sussex) transcribed on Family Search. This has just been followed up by sight of the Parish Register which has the parents as William & Ellen Matilda. William’s occupation is listed a Vagrant with the baptism noted a “Private in Church”.

              I also had come across Joseph John Beaver but he is listed in 1891 with parents Joseph & Dinah Beaver.

              Perhaps because the parents were vagrants the birth was never registered. Joseph is listed on 1891 Census.

              Siblings
              Henry James – 1893(Marylebone) to 1973(Sheffield). He never married

              Albert Edward – 1896(Hastings) to 1979(Huddersfield). He joined the Army and married Alice Clearey in 1916(Sheffield). I have no idea why Albert went to Sheffield.

              Henry William Beaver -1862(Bristol) to Not Found. On census is listed as a Stone Mason, coming from a long line of Stone Masons. From birth details of his children, he must have been on the move looking for work.

              Eleanor Matilda Langridge – from 1891 Census born 1864 in Eastbourne. Unable to find date of birth or baptism which included looking for an Eleanor (Ellen) Matilda, leaving surname blank. Suspect as I cannot find a marriage to Henry William, Langridge may have been her married name.

              I know from my father’s diary that he visited Eleanor in 1944 with no mention of Henry William.

              Census Records
              I have only found Henry James & Albert Edward in the 1939 Register

              Despite different search permutations, I have not found any 1901 or 1911 records for any of the above Ancestors.


              Possibilities
              Did the go abroad and then come back.
              When they on the moved and slipped thorough net.
              Neither Henry James nor Albert Edward received any formal education. Their ability to read and write was very limited.

              Footnote
              James (Harry) Langridge also listed with them on 1891 census was born 1875 in Hurstpierpoint, Sussex. Mother Amelia Morley (nee Wickham). No record found of a marriage to a Langridge

              Comment


                #67
                You need to read back through the 7 pages of posts on this thread and see if the information posted is correct for you. I have done a quick summary here - I hope that I have put in all the points, everyone searched for the wider family to try and pinpoint him, so some of the information posted you already knew:

                We all found the census of 1891 and started from this point:
                1891 New Town, Horsham, Sussex – RG12/828/29/9
                William Beaver 28 Mason b Bristol
                Ellen 27 wife b Eastbourne, Sussex
                Joseph 2 son b Haselmere (sic), Surrey
                James Langridge 15 relative General Labourer b Eastbourne, Sussex

                Baptism at Linchmere, Sussex
                24 Apr 1889 Joseph s/o William & Ellen Matilda Beaver, Linchmere, Sussex

                Baptism at St Mark, Marylebone Road, Westminster
                16 Nov 1893 (born 11 Nov 1893) Henry/Harry (poor writing) s/o William & Ellen Beaver, Stonemason, Rainier St, Notting Hill

                Children registered:
                BEAVER, WILLIAM mmn LANGDRIDGE GRO Reference: 1886 S Quarter in PETERSFIELD Volume 02C Page 147
                BEAVER, HENRY mmn LANGRIDGE GRO Ref: 1893 D Quarter MARYLEBONE Vol 1A Page 529
                BEAVER, EDWARD ALBERT mmn LANGRIDGE GRO Ref: 1896 M Quarter HASTINGS Vol 2B Page 10

                Henry possibly later becomes Henry James Beaver DoB 5 Nov 1893
                William Beaver dies in infancy.

                No marriage has been found for William Beaver and Ellen Matilda Langridge
                No birth registration has been found for Joseph Beaver
                James Langridge (relation) is also a mystery how he is related and whether there is any significance in understanding it.

                1901 census a possibility:
                There is a Joe Beaver lodging with other Travellers/Hawkers in Reigate at 10 Nutley Lane.
                Also there
                William Beaver 27
                Emily Beaver 26

                Possibly William and Ellen but dob way out

                Newspaper articles:
                There's an interesting article in the Hampshire Telegraph 18 July 1924, bearing in mind that Henry became Henry James

                Henry James Beaver, gipsy, of no fixed abode, was charged with stealing two silver teapots [etc etc] the property of Ellen Beaver at Titchfield on June 26. The prosecutrix stated that she was a widow now resident at Alton. The accused was her son, and she valued the property at £7s 10d.

                The article goes on to say that the trouble had started because he married a girl who was not his mother's choice. His mother got her living as a fruit picker. Unfortunately there are no ages mentioned.


                A marriage for Joseph Weaver was spotted here:
                Possible m for Joseph
                Headley, Southampton
                06/09/1915
                Joseph Beaver B 28 a Hawker, abode Lindford Close f William Beaver Hawker
                Florence Deane 25 S same abode f James Deane Hawker
                Both left their mark
                Witnesses William Gamblin, Alice Heather
                Marriage on same day between Frederick Barton and Phoebe Ayers were from the same address and have the same witnesses. And they went on to have a daughter Phoebe.

                1939 Register:
                He looks to be on the 1939 hop picking. With Florence and children. They are transcribed separately on FMP Altered dates of birth a bit confusing. OP would hopefully be able to confirm.

                His military records state – they are on FMP and Ancestry:
                Marriage
                Florence Deane Headley Park 6.9.15
                Present address
                Hxxx Lane Cottage, White Waltham, Maidenhead, Berks
                Children
                first two - illegitimate:
                Joseph 9.3.10 Farnham
                Phoebe 1.3.13 Bognor
                Henry 14.12.15 Tadley
                The pages of his service are very faint.


                Reg of Electors Gloucester/Cheltenham
                They were in Rabbit Lane, Cirencester in 1936 (and Phoebe) according to election
                Then Joseph Beaver is on his own
                then he is with Doreen in 1960s
                Priory street in 1945, Windrush Road 1962 - Gloucester

                There is this death:
                Name: Florence Beaver
                Death Age: 48
                Birth Date: abt 1893
                Registration Date: Jan 1941
                Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
                Registration district: Cirencester
                Inferred County: Gloucestershire
                Volume: 6a
                Page: 1336


                Newspaper articles:
                Hastings and St Leonards Observer 29 Sep 1906 mentions Joseph Beaver, Hop Picker
                There are various newspaper articles in Cheltenham mentioning Joseph Beaver, including giving out balloons from a lorry in exchange for old rags. He can’t read or write. Another article says he is a scrap dealer of 30 King Street, Cheltenham, and prior to that he is described as a green grocer. In 1934 he is a general dealer of White Walton (Waltham), near Maidenhead. In 1943 when charged with misuse of petrol he said he was in town placing flowers on the graves of his wife & son, but the only death I can find for a Florence Beaver is 1953, Cheltenham, aged 66

                Interesting that Albert Edward/Edward Albert (496540) was in the Army Veterinary Corps, and this was also Joseph's preference.

                Also Joseph're records mention being a Wire Worker (one of the brother's occupations in 1939, cant remember which - possibly the one in Sheffield) and also being a Marine Store Dealer, which is basically another word for scrap man / rag & bone man (I have them in my family)

                There are 2 more newspaper articles at post 65 which maybe connected.

                There are posts about the wider Beaver family, assume from you post that you have found all of these.
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                  #68
                  I have been looking at our Fairground, Showmen and Travellers page to see if there might be any databases/lists etc. which might be useful. I found that some of the sites are now defunct so the page needs tidying up but there might be something useful in there.

                  I also had a quick look in the Sussex Poor Law database but the entries for Beaver/Bevis are too early.
                  Caroline
                  Caroline's Family History Pages
                  Do not do to others what angers you if done to you by others. Socrates

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Just wanted to say excellent summary cbcarolyn

                    Quickly adding this though (already posted earlier)

                    Possible marriage for daughter Phoebe:

                    2 Jun 1936 at Beckford, Worcestershire
                    Walter Smith 30 Coal Merchant, Mill Corner, North Warnborough, Hampshire. Father: Henry Smith, Haulage Contractor
                    Phoebe Beaver 23 Rabbit Lane, Beckford. Father Joseph Beaver, General Dealer
                    Witnesses, Joseph, Henry, Emily & Florence Beaver, and Amy Smith
                    Last edited by teasie; 18-09-19, 01:54. Reason: added info

                    Comment


                      #70
                      oh yes sorry forgot that one, and also her entry on 1939 register with husband and son Ronald

                      Name: Phoebe Smith
                      Gender: Female
                      Marital status: Married
                      Birth Date: 1 Mar 1913
                      Residence Year: 1939
                      Address: Fair View, N.W.
                      Residence Place: Hartley Wintney, Hampshire, England

                      I thought all our posts may have been a bit confusing, I was trying to find the links that prove it is definitely the right Joseph as I know I had dismissed that marriage twice, all the missing census and other records makes it tough to link.
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Just in the interests of pedantry, lol, post #25, the witness surname is surely Langridge?

                        OC

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                          Just in the interests of pedantry, lol, post #25, the witness surname is surely Langridge?

                          OC
                          Possibly, but I typed what I see & there is no g in the middle.

                          Lovindge..JPG

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Teasie, yes looks like Loviridge, I agree! Coincidence though.

                            OC

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Thanks again for all the excellent research and information.

                              I have read all the threads and tracked down on the documents which apart from those relating to the Maria Carter all relate to my Great Uncle Joseph

                              The has been a stark reminder that when faced with a brick wall, to revisit the various genealogy sources and more importantly Newspapers.

                              Ironically I have solved other brick walls using Newspaper Archives.

                              I have made contact with the owner of the Ancestry Tree with Joseph Beaver in Tyldesley, Lancashire. The Joseph does relate to my Great Uncle.

                              Regards
                              A very grateful Forum Member

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by BeaverAJ View Post
                                Thanks again for all the excellent research and information.

                                I have read all the threads and tracked down on the documents which apart from those relating to the Maria Carter all relate to my Great Uncle Joseph

                                The has been a stark reminder that when faced with a brick wall, to revisit the various genealogy sources and more importantly Newspapers.

                                Ironically I have solved other brick walls using Newspaper Archives.

                                I have made contact with the owner of the Ancestry Tree with Joseph Beaver in Tyldesley, Lancashire. The Joseph does relate to my Great Uncle.

                                Regards
                                A very grateful Forum Member
                                that is interesting that the other Joseph is a relation too, so that is a whole new branch.

                                Did you manage to link James Langridge visitor?
                                or find the marriage of William Beaver and Ellen Matilda Langridge or any more on her?
                                Carolyn
                                Family Tree site

                                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                Comment


                                  #76
                                  Just posting this as a search on another thread for travellers in the Berkshire area brought up two surnames which also feature here.

                                  The 1916 marriage of Elbert Edward had witnesses named Smith and Lovindge/Loviridge or similar:


                                  The recent thread by tessie31082 entitled 'More help please' was about another family of travellers in the Berkshire area, and tracking them brought me to a newspaper article which mentioned three families living in tents, including Henry Smith & his 'wife' Reservoir Mooring, and Henry Loveridge & his 'wife' Susan Moorend.

                                  I don't think its the same people, but possibly from the same wider traveller families.

                                  Comment


                                    #77
                                    Just completed updating my Beaver Family Tree with all the new information. This included revisiting various family history/newspaper websites. The searches included various name permutations.

                                    Henry William Beaver
                                    Still no luck finding either a marriage or death record. There could be a Parish Record for a marriage. Keeping looking for the appropriate indexes.
                                    Also looking to see if he went abroad, eg a few Stone Masons went to the Channel Islands to construct breakwaters.

                                    Eleanor Matilda Langridge
                                    Found a Hampshire Telegraph article which lists her as a Fruit Picker, Alton, Hampshire.
                                    1939 Register – Ellen Matilda transcribe as Ellanda, Hawker living in Sheffield – Dob 20 June 1867.
                                    I thought initially Langridge was probably her married name. Considering she was 19 when she gave birth to her first son William, I think Langridge is more likely to be her birth name.
                                    Redoubling my effort to understand and research the Traveller Families.

                                    Joseph Beaver
                                    Found baptism and DoB from 1939 Register.
                                    Marriage to Florence Dean & Georgina Doreen Lena White
                                    Residence from 1936 Electoral Role in Beckford, Gloucestershire
                                    Death 1962 Cheltenham
                                    Found WW1 Military Records
                                    Found him mention in 5 Newspaper Articles. One of which has him living at Hastings in 1906. Following this up by trying to locate the Court Records.

                                    Henry James Beaver
                                    There is also a Henry Joseph Beaver (1899-1955) of Kensington with parents Silas John & Sarah Jane
                                    Found a newspaper article in Hampshire Telegraph as a Fruit Picker / Gypsy of no fixed abode.
                                    According to the article Henry was also married. I have met my rather eccentric Uncle Harry as he was called, on a number of occasions with not the slightest inkling that he had been married.
                                    I have a medal card but no records for Albert J Beaver The Queens Regiment.

                                    Albert Edward Beaver
                                    Registered as Edward Albert probably because he was born in the Hastings Union Workshouse (still standings a residential flats).
                                    Could be Eleanor said she was a widow to make in easier to get into the Workhouse for the birth.
                                    Eleanor went into the workhouse on the 20th, gave birth 21st and left 2 days later.
                                    I have no idea why Albert went to Sheffield, where he joined the Army Veterinary Corp (like his brother Joseph) and married Alice Clearey (of Irish ancestry).

                                    Through Ancestry Tree, I am know in email contact with a “Cousin” to exchange research, photos etc.

                                    As my brick wall is cracking, still no giving up hope of find the missing records.

                                    Comment


                                      #78
                                      what a great update, glad you broke a lot of the brick wall. Newspapers seem to be giving you a lot.
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                        #79
                                        I'm still intrigued by Henry James Beavers marriage, which his mother didn't approve of. I can only see two Henry J Beaver's marrying around what I assume to be the right time.

                                        One married Rosina Parsons in 1922, and he was Henry Joseph, son of Silas.

                                        This leaves the 1923 marriage of Henry J Beaver to Wythen Johnson, which was at Salford (Register office or Registrar attended).

                                        With a forename like that you'd think she'd be easy to find, but I can only see a few references to her:
                                        JOHNSON, WYTHAN mmn PARKER GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in ST ALBANS Volume 03A Page 80

                                        Then 1928-1929 she is at 7 Lowndes Buildings, Farnham, Surrey with Henry, and in 1930 they are at No. 6

                                        So she was born in Hertfordshire, married in Lancashire, and 'settled' in Surrey - another traveller?

                                        The combination of Johnson/Parker births means there are lots to chose from, but this one in the same County was interesting:
                                        JOHNSON, CUIDERELLA mmn PARKER GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in HITCHIN Volume 03A Page 759
                                        I think she died Q4 the same year in Barnet, Middlesex

                                        It may be a coincidence, but there is also this birth in Alton, Q4 1924:
                                        Joseph W Beaver mmn Johnson


                                        The article about Henry James stealing from his mother was July 1924, and she lived in Alton.

                                        Added: It looks like the baby died:
                                        BEAVER, JOSEPH WILLIAM aged 0 GRO Reference: 1924 D Quarter in ALTON Volume 02C Page 183
                                        Last edited by teasie; 02-10-19, 20:40. Reason: spelling!

                                        Comment

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