Macleods and Frasers of London

[vera2013]

I can see x 6 children for a David and Marion Fraser bap St James, Westminster. Only one with a Scottish middle name ie Archibald Campbell Fraser b 1783. One other was a General in the E India Madras Infantry (14th)

FMP have Westminster St James bap registers to browse. Have looked from 1850 but not seeing a David Fraser but likely to have been bap Scotland.

David Fraser not in Ancestry indenture registers

Vera

[MJLCarr]

Hi again,
I've spent some more time looking through what I have, but haven't had any luck.
Do any descendants of David & Marion have any other distinctive Scottish names which may have been passed down from their families?
Also, are there any male line descendants of David alive? If so, a Y-DNA test (probably with FTDNA who have an extensive Macleod project) may point you towards one part of Scotland.
All the best with your future hunt!

Sadly not. They had two daughters called Amelia and Jane and a son called John Small Henry. That's about it

[wulliam]

Hi again,
I've spent some more time looking through what I have, but haven't had any luck.
Do any descendants of David & Marion have any other distinctive Scottish names which may have been passed down from their families?
Also, are there any male line descendants of David alive? If so, a Y-DNA test (probably with FTDNA who have an extensive Macleod project) may point you towards one part of Scotland.
All the best with your future hunt!

[wulliam]

Hi William,
I know this may not be in your field of expertise but have you ever heard of a Macleod family that was living in London in the 1780s? I may rightly or wrongly presume they were of some importance given the Macleod passed on through our family as a surname and is the tartan we wear.

Hi! I've spent the last hour or so perusing various books I have looking for a Marion Macleod who married a Fraser. Nothing so far, but I'll keep looking!

[MJLCarr]

That's not quite right, OC...Donald is the English form of the Gaelic name Domhnull....which is pronounced roughly Dohull....which when heard and transcribed by a non-Gaelic speaker was often interpreted as Daniel!

Hi William,
I know this may not be in your field of expertise but have you ever heard of a Macleod family that was living in London in the 1780s? I may rightly or wrongly presume they were of some importance given the Macleod passed on through our family as a surname and is the tartan we wear.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Wulliam

I stand corrected! I just noticed that all the Donalds turned into Daniels around 1750 and ASSUMED (lol) it was a matter of accents- my umpty times great grandfather and his wife were Donald and Grizel one year, the next they were Daniel and Grace!

The Daniel/David confusion is entirely to do with copperplate writing, the outline of the two names is identical.

OC

[wulliam]

This is probably not relevant, but half my tree is Scottish and I found that many Davids were actually Daniels and that Donald is the Gaelic form of Daniel!

OC

That's not quite right, OC...Donald is the English form of the Gaelic name Domhnull....which is pronounced roughly Dohull....which when heard and transcribed by a non-Gaelic speaker was often interpreted as Daniel!

[Elaine]

There's a will for a Donald too, wasn't too sure on that one.

[MJLCarr]

Looking up the MacLeods. The Donald MacLeod may be a brother of Marion as one of the records I found relating to Marion was a baptism on 20th Dec 1759 with a Donald Macleod as her father in Ardersier near Inverness and Culloden. If it's them then it's interesting as to why they have travelled so far south.

[Olde Crone Holden]

This is probably not relevant, but half my tree is Scottish and I found that many Davids were actually Daniels and that Donald is the Gaelic form of Daniel!

OC

[Elaine]

I want to note this David as it's niggling me..

I found a newspaper clip of a David Fraser who is an army accoutrement maker in the newspaper and the one mainly in the Westminster rate books in St. James.

There is a will for a David Frazer in the same area with the same occupation

David Frazer
Probate Date: 10 Apr 1809
Residence: Golden Square, Middlesex, England

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=FhD25158&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=5111&gsfn=david&gsln=fraser&cp=0&msddy=1810&new=1&rank=1&uidh=adw&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=36&fh=1&h=457351&recoff=&ml_rpos=2

but as far as I can make out says 5 heirs and names ? Donald Mcleod as executor, it's just David's signature I am not sure of.

[GallowayLass]

Try looking for the apprenticeship indenture for David Fraser. If he was apprenticed in London hopefully his papers may be recorded. I know some are online but sorry I’m not sure where exactly. Hopefully someone will point you in the right direction. The East India Company kept good records,try looking in the National Archives online catalogue and also on FIBIS for him (Families in British India Society) https://www.fibis.org/ You will need a sub to see FIBIS records.

[MJLCarr]

Sadly I don't think the lived long enough to come up in census. Their descendants related to me lived in St. Marylebone at the earliest census date. Another child lived in India as a Captain in the East India Company. David Fraser apparently was a harness maker and member of the Society of Arts. The Scottish names simply must mean a link, it's just there's no way to find out.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Are you able to bring them forward into the census years? Important families often had homes in London as well as their ancestral seats elsewhere.

OC

[Anne in Carlisle]

They were married at St George Hanover Square on 15 Feb 1780. David Fraser was of St James Westminster and Marion was of 'this parish' (St George H Squ). Both signed their names.

Witnesses were Alex[ander] Macleod and Arch[ibald] Campbell.

So no help there except all the names are obviously Scottish.

Anne

[MJLCarr]

Hello all,

My name is Matthew and I am researching some of my supposedly scottish ancestors. I have now hit what appears to be a brick wall. I have a marriage between a David Fraser and a Marion MacLeod in 1780 at St. George's Hanover Square in London, nowhere near Scotland. I only have the Pallot's Marriage Index card for them which gives the husbands parish as St. James' Westminster. I am sure that Marion must have also comes from an important family as the MacLeod name has been passed down through my family.

If anyone has any ideas where I could go from here I would be most grateful. I have mainly been using Ancestry for my research.

Thank you all,
Matthew Carr