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Help please with census returns for Mary McDonagh, later known as Mary McDonald.

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    Help please with census returns for Mary McDonagh, later known as Mary McDonald.

    Can anyone help fill in census gaps (1881, 1891 & 1901) for this Mary, elusive because the surname kept morphing? I’m sorry the following is so long, but I want to give you as much background as I can, because I’ve found piecing together her life somewhat challenging. (I’ve been working forwards in time and am now in touch with a family I believe to be descendants of Mary’s son, John S McDonald. They are working backwards from John, but are stuck at his baptism – I’m hoping, with your help, to join up the dots in the middle.)

    According to her bc, Mary McDonagh was born at Whitrope tunnel cottages, Castleton, Roxburgh, 10 Sep 1862, daughter of Commons & Catherine McDonagh. Her father was a labourer employed on railway construction. In 1871 Mary was recorded in the family home in Walker, Newcastle on Tyne, where her father (recorded as Cummins McDonough) was labouring in a factory. https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...off=&ml_rpos=8

    By 1881 the family lived in Usworth (in the parish of Heworth, just south of Gateshead) and the surname had morphed into McDonack. Mary was not at home, I assume she was in employment, probably as a living-in domestic servant. https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

    It seems she had an illegitimate daughter Annie McDonald (birth reg Gateshead Q2 1888 no mmn) bp St Joseph’s Gateshead 27 Mar 1889 Ann McDonald d/o Mary, born 12 Jun 1888 (LDS transcription & no image available.) In 1891 Annie McDonald was with her grandparents, recorded as their 2yr old daughter. Mary was not at the parental home. https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

    Birth of a son John Samuel McDonald was registered at Gateshead in June 1893, no mmn. He was bp St Joseph’s Gateshead 16 May 1894, John McDonnell or Connelly born 4 Apr 1893 son of Mary McDonnell – again LDS transcription only, no image available.)

    In 1901 daughter (Eva) Annie McDonald was in residential domestic service in Heworth,https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
    son John McDonald was a 7 yr old boarder in Gateshead. https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
    Haven’t found Mary McDonald/McDonnell/Connelly.

    Eva Annie married in 1908 and settled in Gateshead; in 1911 Mary McDonald , son John Samuel & gd dau (Eva Annie d/o Annie) were in Gateshead.https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...646.1565199337

    Thanks for persevering.
    Jay
    Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 19-08-19, 15:28.
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

    #2
    just in case you think nobody is looking I tried yesterday ,but gave up, will have another go later, if nobody else finds it.


    Val

    Comment


      #3
      I'm still looking. Pondering why Mary's children were baptised long after birth and at a young age living away from extended family.
      Cant see Mary as an Asylum patient although there is one Mary McDonald in Durham Asylum but 1876/77 so only fifteen.
      The Army records for John Samuel list him as CofE. NOK mother Mary. Have you got those records Jay?

      Vera

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks Val.
        I don't hold out a lot of hope for ever finding Mary, but would love it if someone could look over what I've found and see if it all seems feasible.

        Jay
        Janet in Yorkshire



        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for looking, Vera.
          I'm not sure if I have got the right army papers. I've got the set for Royal Engineers number 26057 - that gives his religion as Roman Catholic and an address for his mother at Monkton St, Jarrow. Can you give me a link to the military record you've found. please? (I subscribe to both Ancestry and FMP)

          I think there was another John Samuel McDonald around - first time Mary's son appears as John Samuel is 1911 census.

          Jay
          Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 20-08-19, 14:38.
          Janet in Yorkshire



          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

          Comment


            #6
            The birth date on this 1939 record matches the one on the bp entry.
            https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
            Also occupation ties in with the 1911 census ref I gave in the opening post.
            The military record I found and referred to in post 5 is for someone who was a riveter at Palmer's shipyard, which is why I'm not sure I've got the right one.

            Jay
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

            Comment


              #7
              Do you recognise any of the addresses?
              1917 49 Alexander Rd, Hirst (postcard addressed to Mrs Mary McDonald re-directed to Gateshead
              1919 15 Cobden Street, Gateshead
              34 Hawthorn Rd, Ashington

              John Samuel McDonald
              B 1893
              SN 61927 Royal Garrison Artillery
              Previously with 9th Durhams
              NOK mother Mary McDonald
              Sober, conscientious, intelligent

              Vera

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                Thanks for looking, Vera.
                I'm not sure if I have got the right army papers. I've got the set for Royal Engineers number 26057 - that gives his religion as Roman Catholic and an address for his mother at Monkton St, Jarrow. Can you give me a link to the military record you've found. please? (I subscribe to both Ancestry and FMP)

                I think there was another John Samuel McDonald around - first time Mary's son appears as John Samuel is 1911 census.

                Jay
                Will rev up my laptop

                Vera

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks for #7, Vera. I had looked at this record the other day, but wasn't sure because the occupation at enlistment was given as barman, rather than miner (see 1911 census.) Barman "threw" me, because Mary McDonagh had a brother Peter who went into the pub trade and managed a pub in Newcastle in 1901 and by 1911 he was a licensee. He continued in the pub business and I have a picture of "The Blue Post" in Pilgrim Street in 1920, with his name above the door. Another brother Matthew was a barman in 1901 and in 1911 Mary's youngest sibling William was a bar manager. So, the barman seemed to fit the family background (3 uncles in the trade) but in 1911 Mary's son was down the pit. However, he was 17 years old - perhaps age disqualified him from bar work and selling alcohol?????
                  As they're not my actual family, I don't have any addresses for any of them. Mary's daughter and family were in Gateshead in 1911 - if they remained there, Mary could have moved and gone to live with them whilst John was in the army.
                  Ashington fits with the 1939 record. So many ifs and ands and maybes - also we are into the dates of a lack of internet records. And maddeningly, Mary is still below the radar.

                  Jay
                  Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 20-08-19, 15:40.
                  Janet in Yorkshire



                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                  Comment


                    #10
                    https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

                    Vera

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes lots of ifs and buts. Have had a quick look for DLI records. Nothing showing yet. Hopefully they may give more info re Mary

                      EDIT Could try comparing signatures if you have MC or any other John S doc

                      Vera
                      Last edited by vera2013; 20-08-19, 15:54.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Vera, I'm so sorry - I can't find the second John Samuel now :( I think I've looked at so many John/John S/John Samuel references that I've muddled up some of them. I apologise if this has caused you to waste time. Just the name McDonough gives me a headache and a feeling of doom and foreboding these days! (And I STILL can't establish a link between this branch and my own set.)

                        I don't have the marriage cert as he's not actually my family, but have been looking at 1911 & army papers for signatures. We are in the time frame when everyone went to school and was taught to write, but in the same way.

                        Jay
                        Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 20-08-19, 16:03.
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment


                          #13
                          started looking and got nowhere, then forgot to return to it. will have another look
                          Carolyn
                          Family Tree site

                          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks, Carolyn.
                            Vera's given me lots of help to firm up my info on Mary's son John Samuel, who is definitely the ancestor of the family I'm in contact with. It's the middle bit which is missing, the whereabouts of Mary in 1881, 1891 & 1901, to link the Mary McDonald (mother of John Samuel) in 1911, with the Mary McDonagh born Scotland, daughter of Cummins (Commons) & Catherine McDonough, who all lived in Walker in 1871.

                            Jay
                            Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 20-08-19, 17:48.
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I did try just searching for Mary in Heworth in 1891 as Annie was a servant, and the houses around there didn't commonly have servants, so thought maybe she was nearby. But drew a blank.

                              Did you have the census for Catherine in 1901 she is Kate, but not much use to you I guess!
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Capture McDonald John S 2.JPGCapture McDonald John S 1.JPGCapture McDonald John S 3.JPG

                                Not wasting my time Jay. Happy to chip away to get to Mary

                                The signatures of 1911 and 1915 look similar to me and note the dot and dash under the c for Mc. My dad used to say that identified him as being of Scottish descent.

                                The 1919 looks different but then John S was signing his discharge papers and was about to marry so may be he just dashed it off.
                                Last edited by vera2013; 20-08-19, 18:09.

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