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Where can I find a Service Record for The Royal Engineers, 1891?

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    Where can I find a Service Record for The Royal Engineers, 1891?

    Hello,

    I have Richard Kean, age 28yrs, Born Manchester, (1860/'63) on the 1891 Census for Kent:


    https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/1...edium=copy-url

    There is an Entry on Ancestry on the WW1 Medal Rolls for a Richard Kean, - but this man would have been in his mid 50's by then, - and so probably not him?

    There is another Army Record for a Richard Kean on Ancestry, which shows him enlisting for The Manchester Regiment. I've downloaded the Attestation papers, and it is for the right man, as it names his Father, also Richard Kean, of 6 Harper Street, Hulme, Manchester.

    Could anyone on here please tell me if it's possible to access the Service Record for the Richard Kean shown on the 1891 Census?

    I can then ascertain if I'm following the same man.

    Cheers, Holly.

    #2
    Richard in Shorncliffe Camp in 1891 appears to be a
    widower.
    Does that fit with 'your' Richard ?

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for your reply Gwyn.

      I hadn't noticed the Widower part, - is that on the 1891 Census?

      I have found him on the 1881 Census, working as a 'House Painter' in Manchester, and Married to Margaret, - but I couldn't find a Marriage for them.

      Holly.
      Last edited by Holly; 15-07-19, 11:13.

      Comment


        #4
        My RE ancestor was serving about the time that yours was born.

        Attestation papers/Chelsea Pensioners papers are on (and indexed on) FindMyPast. But, if like my ancestor, yours did not serve until pension (21 years, I believe), then his attestation papers were probably not preserved.

        I was successful hiring a researcher to find his payroll entries at Kew. As I recall, REs are especially difficult because they didn't stay with one regiment.
        ------------------------------------------------------
        My Families
        London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Holly View Post
          Married to Margaret, - but I couldn't find a Marriage for them.
          May be an indication that they married while posted outside of Britain. I was fortunate in that mine was in Ireland at the time, and I have an Irish Civil Reg record for it. Can't find the parish record for it, nor the baptism of their first son about 10 months later.
          ------------------------------------------------------
          My Families
          London-area Coverly Family Finder DNA Project

          Comment


            #6
            Many Thanks for that PhotoFamily, - much appreciated.

            It is puzzling, - because I can't find a Death for Margaret Kean either, but if they were out of the country, - perhaps that would explain it.

            I had found the Payroll and Muster Books on The National Archives Site, but they seem quite tricky to Search...

            I will have to give it some more thought.

            Comment


              #7
              Kat
              https://www.pinterest.co.uk/katarzyna1234/my-own-cards/

              Comment


                #8
                thanks Kat.

                I had found that one, but it didn't seem to have a Margaret on it.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Had a quick look but mistranscribed. Image clearly shows 1062 not 1064 and that Richard Kean married a Mary Lawler or a Mary Ann Young :(


                  Edit:"I had found that one, but it didn't seem to have a Margaret on it."
                  It wouldn't as there are only 5 persons on there not 6 as should be. That's why I looked for the missing partner.
                  Last edited by Katarzyna; 15-07-19, 15:07.
                  Kat
                  https://www.pinterest.co.uk/katarzyna1234/my-own-cards/

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ahhh, - thanks for pointing that out Kat.

                    I will look at it again.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      maybe it is one of those, and Margaret is wrong on census in 1881, is there another Richard Kean in the area?
                      Carolyn
                      Family Tree site

                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Richard Kean's Father was also Richard Kean, Carolyn.

                        Holly.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Richsrd Kean married Mary A Young, according to Lancsbmd.

                          OC

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                            Richsrd Kean married Mary A Young, according to Lancsbmd.
                            OC
                            Many Thanks OC.

                            It won't be the first time that there's an incorrect name on the Census!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Holly View Post
                              Richard Kean's Father was also Richard Kean, Carolyn.

                              Holly.
                              I have him with a Frances Butler and a Martha Painter, so can't be him with Mary as well.
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
                                I have him with a Frances Butler and a Martha Painter, so can't be him with Mary as well.
                                That is Richard Kean (Senior) Father of the Richard Kean, Born Manchester 1860 that I'm looking at Carolyn.

                                Frances Butler was his first Wife, Mother of Richard Kean the younger. Sadly, she died at 39yrs. Martha was his second Wife.

                                Holly.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Holly just wondering how you know that the father of your Richard is also a Richard? Apart from Army Record
                                  I looked at Ancestry, FMP and a couple of military sites.
                                  Couldnt find s Sapper Richard Kean b 1863 Manchester RE

                                  Vera
                                  Last edited by vera2013; 15-07-19, 19:44.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    yes that is what I have, so the Richard Kean marriage in 1880, could be your Richard Kean the younger and Margaret is Mary? I can't immediately see any other Richards in the area, one born 1868 so a bit young for 1880 marriage. I also can't find a Richard and Mary on the 1881 census, but they could be anywhere in the country possibly.
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      there is a death in 1891

                                      Name: Mary Ann Kean
                                      Estimated birth year: abt 1862
                                      Registration Year: 1891
                                      Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
                                      Age at Death: 29
                                      Registration district: Chorlton

                                      https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...97/edit/record
                                      Carolyn
                                      Family Tree site

                                      Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                      Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Well, - that would make him a Widower on the 1891 Census, wouldn't it? Thanks Carolyn!

                                        I think the Richard Kean, Born Manchester 1860/'63 who joined the Manchester Regiment in 1886 and the Richard Kean who's a Sapper in The Royal Engineers on the1891 census, must be the same man.

                                        Holly.

                                        Comment

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