Originally posted by cbcarolyn
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Service Record for The Royal Engineers 1891? finding Richard Kean b Manchester 1860
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Many thanks for all the contributions, much appreciated.
I’ve had a break from this research for a while, but am now going over my notes again.
Carolyn, the first sighting of William James Wilson is in June 1893 when he married my Grandmother Margaret Rees in Swansea.
Since my last Posts, I’ve had more Kean and Butler DNA matches, which makes it even more likely that I’m descended from Richard Kean (Senior) and Frances Butler.
Holly.
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Originally posted by Holly View PostI have new DNA matches to the descendants of Thomas Kean, born 1858.
Also to the descendants of Patrick Butler and Mary Howard.
Holly.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Yes, one is the Great Granddaughter of Thomas Kean, born 1858, who was the brother of Richard Kean. My DNA match to her is 49cMs, but my daughter’s DNA match to her is 110cMs.
She also matches to my sister and my two paternal 1st cousins.
The two new Butler DNA matches that I have are to the Great Granddaughters of Patrick Butler. I match to one at 74cMs and 24cMs. They also match everyone on my paternal side who has tested.
Holly.Last edited by Holly; 16-05-22, 20:03.
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Originally posted by Holly View PostMy DNA match to her is 49cMs, but my daughter’s DNA match to her is 110cMs.Last edited by PhotoFamily; 16-05-22, 22:47.
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Originally posted by Holly View PostYes, one is the Great Granddaughter of Thomas Kean, born 1858, who was the brother of Richard Kean. My DNA match to her is 49cMs, but my daughter’s DNA match to her is 110cMs.
She also matches to my sister and my two paternal 1st cousins.
The two new Butler DNA matches that I have are to the Great Granddaughters of Patrick Butler. I match to one at 74cMs and 24cMs. They also match everyone on my paternal side who has tested.
Holly.
I think I would still get the death cert of the mother Mary, to see if husband made an appearance in it, and what he was down as. and would also get the death cert of daughter Catherine, it maybe not her, and we could search again.Last edited by cbcarolyn; 17-05-22, 00:35.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
IMO, you need to look for another common ancestral line between your daughter and the new match, one that you do not share.
My daughter seems to have inherited more Butler DNA than I have, she has higher matches to them generally than I do. Whereas I seem to have higher Kean DNA matches.
Because my sister and paternal 1st cousins have also tested, I can see how amounts of DNA shared vary.
Holly.
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Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Post
you kind of think Richard must be yours then, unless there is some odd sibling we never found. Such a shame the children never had descendants. It sounds like the DNA matches all trace back to Richard now, as I seem to remember some of the matches you didn't have their tree.
I think I would still get the death cert of the mother Mary, to see if husband made an appearance in it, and what he was down as. and would also get the death cert of daughter Catherine, it maybe not her, and we could search again.
There’s also this Entry:
NameCatherine JohnsonDeath Date1917Death Placecity, Massachusetts, USAIndex Volume NumberIndex Volume NumberReference NumberReference NumberHousehold members
I can’t view the actual Record, because I don’t have Worldwide access.
Were it not for DNA I would still be fruitlessly pursuing a William James Wilson, born Manchester 1860. He doesn’t seem to exist, whereas I have all of these Kean and Butler DNA matches. My highest DNA matches are to the descendants of Thomas Kean and John Kean.Last edited by Holly; 17-05-22, 11:24.
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Originally posted by vera2013 View PostCapture Johnson fmp death.JPG A possible for Catherine
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource
Burnley reg (for Nelson)from whence Herbert came on manifest 12/07/1913
Catherine Johnson b 1885
Died 2nd q 1913 aged 28
This is a death announcement for Burnley at the hospital
Express and Advertiser
BMD Burnley
23rd May 1913 Catherine Johnson
At the hospital
Vera
Herbert def travelled back on his own, I think the details are in the posts, they were both crossed out on manifest, and then he travelled back on his own. So likely she died in 1913.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by cbcarolyn View Postthere is a death in 1891
Name: Mary Ann Kean
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Registration Year: 1891
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 29
Registration district: Chorlton
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...97/edit/recordCarolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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the certs might give you some hints about Richard, and where they thought he had gone.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by Holly View Post
I think that the issue is that DNA is randomly assigned, and within families, different members will inherit differing amounts.
My daughter seems to have inherited more Butler DNA than I have, she has higher matches to them generally than I do. Whereas I seem to have higher Kean DNA matches.
Because my sister and paternal 1st cousins have also tested, I can see how amounts of DNA shared vary.
Holly.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
Comment
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Originally posted by Holly View Post
I think that the issue is that DNA is randomly assigned, and within families, different members will inherit differing amounts.
My daughter seems to have inherited more Butler DNA than I have, she has higher matches to them generally than I do. Whereas I seem to have higher Kean DNA matches.
Because my sister and paternal 1st cousins have also tested, I can see how amounts of DNA shared vary.
Holly.
as you said everyone inherits DNA at random, roughly but not strictly 50% from each parent. your mother and siblings may share more DNA with someone than you do. but your children will only inherit what you have. which means your dau will have exactly as much as you have or less. she can't inherit more than you have, unless her father also matches some DNA with these matches.
photofamily is right, you should investigate other connections to this family.
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Originally posted by Holly View PostI have fairly high DNA Matches to a Kean family in Woodstock, Ontario, Canada. I match to the Father, Nephew and Grandson.
The only link that I have managed to work out is that Thomas Kean, Born Manchester 1860 married Mary Ann Elizabeth KAY.
Also, Mary Ann Elizabeth Kay's sister, Sarah Hannah Kay, married John Kean, Born Manchester 1866.
Mary Ann and Sarah Hannah Kay's Parents were Samuel James KAY and Sarah KAY.
At some stage, Thomas and Mary Ann Kean must have emigrated to Canada. I haven't found out when...
Holly.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Originally posted by Holly View PostYes, one is the Great Granddaughter of Thomas Kean, born 1858, who was the brother of Richard Kean. My DNA match to her is 49cMs, but my daughter’s DNA match to her is 110cMs.
She also matches to my sister and my two paternal 1st cousins.
The two new Butler DNA matches that I have are to the Great Granddaughters of Patrick Butler. I match to one at 74cMs and 24cMs. They also match everyone on my paternal side who has tested.
Holly.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
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Kylejustin, I’ve checked my husband’s Test, and he has a few very low cMs matches to Butler’s.
No links that I can see at all…
I have lots of shared matches with my late Mother where I have a higher match than she does to the same person though.
Holly.
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Originally posted by Holly View PostCarolyn, there are lots of Public Trees on Ancestry that have Patrick Butler on. I don’t know if this link will work, but this is one example.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tr...72219762/facts
But Mary Agnes Kean is very elusive…
what about the Ontario link do you have those trees, are they part of the Keans?
it looks as though you have lots of puzzle pieces, just need to start joining them up and building trees and messaging people.Last edited by cbcarolyn; 18-05-22, 14:29.Carolyn
Family Tree site
Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff
Comment
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The link between the Butler’s and the Kean’s is that Richard Kean (1832 - 1894) married Frances Butler (1833 - 1873) in 1853.
Frances Butler was the daughter of Patrick Butler and Jane Howard.
And so that must be why I have DNA matches to both sets of descendants.
Holly.
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