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James Desbrow - A Mystery Grandfather

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    James Desbrow - A Mystery Grandfather

    Hi all,

    My 3x Great Grandfather was called James Desbrow, here is what I know about him -

    - Born c1808
    - Appears on the 1841 Census as James Deshone, living in Finchley.
    - Appears on the 1851 Census as James Desbrow, living in Finchley.
    - Died 1856 in Barnet, Middlesex.

    The problem I face is this, I cannot find a birth record for him - the 1851 Census gives his place of birth but I cannot make it out, perhaps Berks or Beds.

    If anyone could help find his birth record I may be able to find his parents and move back from there.

    I have been stuck on this for years and any assistance would be wonderful.

    Kind regards, J

    #2
    This is the link to the 1851 (on Ancestry) if anyone wants a look. I'm afraid I haven't any helpful ideas at the moment.

    Comment


      #3
      I read that as Fenlock, Bedfordshire.

      Hope that helps.

      Carol

      Comment


        #4
        Oops looked at wrong entry
        Last edited by ozgirl; 27-06-19, 15:28.
        Linda


        My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

        Comment


          #5
          does look like beds, maybe berks. I can't think of anywhere that it looks like. I live near Flitwick in beds, and that is pronounced flitick, but think that is a stretch, but am guessing it is something like that, spelt wrongly.
          Carolyn
          Family Tree site

          Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
          Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

          Comment


            #6
            I assume that this is him on FMP ........

            James is shown as James Desbrow, b.ca 1811. Occupation Tailor. Address Hog Market. Wife Ann. Children; Joseph 3, Eliza 1, and Ann 3 months (??3 days). All shown as born in County (Middlesex)

            https://www.findmypast.com.au/transc...841/0006983120


            However, in the 1851 he is shown as Bricklayer, with wife Ann, children Joseph, Eliza, Ann, Daniel, Peter, Charles and John, plus mother-in-law Mary King.

            The transcript on FMP says "Bedfordshire, England" .......

            .... I think the image does say Beds

            But I can make no guess as to the place name other than it does seem to begin with F when I look at other entries on the page.
            Last edited by Sylvia C; 27-06-19, 16:25.
            My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

            Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

            Comment


              #7
              James Desbrow married Ann Grace King in 1836, Hornsey, Middlesex ......... no image as it is a Boyd's Index

              https://www.findmypast.com.au/transc.../M/754550287/1

              Ancestry has the Parish Register entry for their marriage

              https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

              No father's name on Register, and I can't make out the witnesses names, although doesn't seem to be Desbrow!
              My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

              Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

              Comment


                #8
                ??????????????????/

                I'm throwing this out as a possibility for a baptism in Bedfordshire, even though the year is out ..........

                https://www.findmypast.com.au/transcript?id=R_951776428

                James Desborough, baptised 12 October 1812, Potton, Bedfordshire. Father Jas, Mother Hannah
                My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Wiki has a Fancott, Beds.

                  Wonder why he changed his occupation from Tailor to Bricklayer to labourer??

                  Vera

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It could be Fenlake which is now a suburb of Bedford.
                    Linda


                    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Fenlake was previously, I believe, called Fenlock - see post #3 above

                      Carol
                      Last edited by Carol Bird; 27-06-19, 19:19.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ooh yes. I read it as Beds but now you say there was actually somewhere called Fenlock it makes good sense.
                        As I know to my cost, Bedfordshire records are very badly represented online. Just because its small ..... sigh!! Bedford was a hotbed of Methodism too so a baptism may not have been a parish church one. The County Archive in Bedford is very good but you need to go there in person if possible.
                        Anne

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Carol Bird View Post
                          Fenlake was previously, I believe, called Fenlock - see post #3 above

                          Carol
                          As mentioned in this book - towards the bottom of the 2nd column of the left page. Stated to be in the parish of Cardington

                          https://archive.org/details/bedfords...9bedf/page/n47


                          This book is the parish registers of Cardington from 1572 - 1812. However I couldn't find any Desbrow/Desboroughs in it.

                          https://archive.org/details/bedfords...08bedf/page/n5
                          Linda


                          My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                          Comment


                            #14
                            it is a tiny place in 1841 - 5 pages, but looking very faded, hoping that there was still a Desbrow there :( :
                            https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...HO107_7_9-0556
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                              #15
                              did have a search around, but didn't find anything.

                              nearest to the area mentioned is this:
                              https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bi...=successSource

                              Also I see that there are a number of baptisms in 1700s that are in Haynes, this is quite near to Cardington.

                              Fancott is a few miles north of Luton.
                              Carolyn
                              Family Tree site

                              Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                              Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                              Comment


                                #16
                                James Desbrow --- a mystery

                                Originally posted by EmpireUmpire View Post
                                Hi all,

                                My 3x Great Grandfather was called James Desbrow, here is what I know about him -

                                - Born c1808
                                - Appears on the 1841 Census as James Deshone, living in Finchley.
                                - Appears on the 1851 Census as James Desbrow, living in Finchley.
                                - Died 1856 in Barnet, Middlesex.

                                The problem I face is this, I cannot find a birth record for him - the 1851 Census gives his place of birth but I cannot make it out, perhaps Berks or Beds.
                                1) James Desbrow is my 2 x great-grandfather and progenitor of the “Finchley Desbrows”.

                                2) According to Census records he was born in Fenlock, Beds in 1808.
                                3) In 1965 the Beds County Archivist informed me that:
                                a) Fenlock was the local pronunciation of Fenlake.
                                b) In early 1800’s Fenlake was a hamlet near Bedford; but now part of that city.
                                c) A search of Beds birth/baptismal records for that period yielded no Desbrows.
                                d) At the time there were many dissenters (from C of E) in Beds and birth/baptismal records for such are patchy.
                                4) James married Ann Grace King in 1836; aged 28.
                                5) James and Ann had 11 children including my great-grandfather Joseph, the eldest.
                                6) James died in Finchley in 1855, aged 48.

                                That is more or less where matters accurately stand as far as I am aware. In the following I shall refer specifically to my 2 x great-grandfather as “my” James.

                                There is an online record (which I have not verified) stating that (my editing)
                                James Desbrow was born in 1808 to John Desbrow and Sarah [nee Desborow or Desborough].
                                John was born in 1779, in Woodnewton Northamptonshire.
                                Sarah was born in 1781, in Polebrook Northamptonshire.
                                James had 3 siblings including John Desbrow [Jr].

                                There is an online record (which I have not verified) stating that (my editing)
                                John Desbrow was born in 1779 to John Desbrow [Sr] and Mary (nee Clithero).
                                John [Sr] was born circa 1748.
                                Mary was born in 1757, in Benefield Northamptonshire.
                                John had 4 siblings.
                                John married Sarah [nee Desborow or Desborough] circa 1801, aged 22.
                                Sarah was born in 1781, in Polebrook.
                                They had 4 children including James Desbrow.
                                John passed away in 1851, aged 72.

                                I have copy of an 1851 Census transcription for Polebrook Northants recording Desbrow household members as (my editing)
                                John Head born 1779 in Woodnewton, Northants tailor
                                Sarah Wife born 1781 in Polebrook
                                John [Jr] unmarried Son born 1802 in Polebrook tailor
                                William unmarried Son born 1808 in Polebrook tailor
                                According to the two records above there are thus two children of John Desbrow’s family not part of his 1851 household; of whom James is identified as one by the latter record.

                                What is consistent with this James Desbrow being “my” James?

                                7) “my” James did indeed marry Ann Grace King in 1836 aged 28 (as 4)) so that he would have been born in 1807 or 1808.
                                8)
                                “my” James was in Finchley, London and so definitely not in John Desbrow’s household in Polebrook in 1851.
                                9) On a birth certificate dated 1844 for his daughter Maria (which I have) “my” James’ occupation was given as tailor.
                                10)
                                One of ”my” James’ children was baptised John—perhaps in honour of James’ father?

                                What is inconsistent?
                                11) If “my” James were John’s and Sarah’s son (and remember that the census return only records residing household members in 1851 by which time “my” James is recorded as living in Finchley) then, barring unlikely events, James’ and brother William’s stated common birth year 1808 is problematical.
                                12)
                                According to copy of the Death Certificate for “my” James (which I have) he died on 27th December 1855 aged 48 years so that he would have been born in 1806 or 1807; most probably, given the precise date of death, the latter. If so, this could resolve the unlikelihood/impossibility of his being born in the same year as “brother” William and is in agreement with 7).

                                There are two further difficulties about this possible identification.

                                13)
                                Why is there no record of birth/baptism for “my” James in Beds? Is there such record at All Saints Polebrook or St Mary’s Woodnewton or other non-conformist church in either parish? Was he not baptised? Was this a secret illegitimate and possibly unrecorded birth? Did James fictionalise his origins for the census?
                                14)
                                The former above quoted on-line record for James Desbrow provides an address for him in 1861 despite its recording his death already in 1854. This incompatibility casts serious doubt upon the integrity of the entire record and suggests two James’s are being confused and conflated; possibly “my” James and his son James [Jr] (1853-1909?).

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Could the dates for William be correct and they are twins? Do you have any records on him? if so then it is really unlikely as they would have been baptised together, and it is also possible for them to be not twins but still born within same year.

                                  Clearly the birthplace is very inconsistent - and would make no sense for twins, but guess that the place could be wrong as it is only mentioned on one record. The move from Northampton to Bedford also seems suspicious if it was tiny. Did archivist give any you any history of the place?

                                  I think they were all tailors which is a positive, I am not sure how common this occupation was.
                                  Carolyn
                                  Family Tree site

                                  Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                  Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    there were some desbrows in Haynes and also that one in Kempston (link I posted), have you pursued any of those to see if you can find a logical link?
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Addendum to James Desbrow --- a mystery

                                      Just noticed that a couple of lines from the online record for James D. dropped off in the posting (How does that happen?) They are relevant to the rest of the post and are:
                                      James married Anne [sic] Grace King of London in 1836, aged 28.
                                      James passed away in 1854, aged 46.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        the Northamptonshire baptisms on Ancestry that I can see are:
                                        Parents John and Sarah (corrected from Mary in register) in Polebrook
                                        John 16 Aug 1801
                                        Mary 20 Jan 1805
                                        William 16 Aug 1807
                                        Elizabeth 24 Jun 1810

                                        They were tailors, but there is a death for a John at this age in Polebrook, so maybe didn’t go to Bedfordshire. I can’t find 1841 census at the moment, only 1851

                                        John (above) had brothers Robert and William, sister Mary all born in Wood Newton Northants, lots of tailors also. Wondered if James had come from one of these. I have not found a family for William yet, but there is a death in same village matching his birth, so doesn't look like he moved far. Robert also seemed to have stayed local and can't see a James with him either.

                                        Using the Northamptonshire records there is a James in Irchester parents Thomas and Mary children are:


                                        William Desborough 25 Dec 1798
                                        Elizth Desborough 20 May 1804
                                        Mary Desborough 6 Apr 1806
                                        Thomas Desborough 11 Dec 1808
                                        James Desborough 17 May 1812

                                        none of these names appear to be part of the family names, and have not looked at these in census at all.
                                        Carolyn
                                        Family Tree site

                                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                        Comment

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