Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Infant deaths

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Infant deaths

    I'm compiling my wifes family tree they came from Glamorgan , Wales, in the 1911 census it showed that there were 5 children born alive and 3 died i cannot find any trace of these children if infants died soon after birth would they be required to be issued with birth and death certificates any help would be grateful.

    #2
    I am not 100% sure, I thought they did - others on here will let you know.

    I do know that they may not have been named and searching can be harder, have you tried GRO putting in maiden name and fathers surname?
    https://www.gro.gov.uk/
    Carolyn
    Family Tree site

    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

    Comment


      #3
      If your baby was born dead before 24 completed weeks of pregnancy your baby's birth cannot be registered. ... If your baby was born alive at any stage of pregnancy and then died, you need to register you baby's death within 5 working days. You can register the birth at the same time.


      Val

      Comment


        #4
        Val is correct ..............

        HOWEVER there are some births that are not registered but the deaths are.

        This seems to happen when the death occurs very soon after birth, everything and everybody is in a state of chaos, and registering the birth seems to get lost in it all.

        I was once told that if a baby took 2 breaths after birth but then died, that it was considered as being born alive.

        But use that GRO Index given you by Carolyn. You have to register, but it is free and safe. Just follow the instructions for births and deaths.

        Use the birth index first, then change to the Death Index ........... although there is one little problem with the deaths ..........

        they do not give the mother's maiden name as that is not on an English or Welsh death certificate for a child. But the problem is that they have not yet succeeded in distinguishing between hours, days, weeks, months or years for children under the age of 12, even though that information is on the registration.

        Therefore you have to decide whether a child shown as dying at "age 6" actually died at age 6 hours, 6 days, 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years.

        Use your knowledge of the name, and the area of registration.
        My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

        Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

        Comment


          #5
          I firmly believe that some families counted still births or even late miscarriages in their total of children. They were all remembered and each was a sadness for the family, regardless of the actual question on that column of the census. Using Sylvia's suggestions above should find them all unless they were never alive outside the womb and therefore not eligible for registration.
          Anne

          Comment


            #6
            Bear in mind not all deaths were registered prior to 1875, a law was passed around then as there was an infamous black widow case.

            If you have access to burial registers in the local area, that might be a good way to find the children too, if you can match addresses to census details or birth addresses.

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for the quick response I have tried typing in the mothers maiden name but they don't show this on records until 1912. As the parents have very Welsh names Elliott and Jones the results that have come up are many, so other than to purchase these on the off chance i strike lucky i think this is the only option left for me which is going to work out quite expensive. Thanks again for all your suggestions.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by laurence89 View Post
                Thanks for the quick response I have tried typing in the mothers maiden name but they don't show this on records until 1912.
                Maiden name is definitely on GRO before 1912, I can have a look for you if you post some details.

                here are a couple in Swansea as an example: father Elliott and mother Jones male 1892 +/- 2 years


                ELLIOTT, FREDERICK THOMAS JONES
                GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 858
                ELLIOTT, JOHN JONES
                GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 834
                Last edited by cbcarolyn; 01-06-19, 13:05.
                Carolyn
                Family Tree site

                Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                Comment


                  #9
                  Sorry if i misled you my wife's grandparents were married in 1900 in Pontypridd, Glamorgan their first born was Charles in 1901 and Margaret in 1907 its between 1901 and 1911 they had these other 3 children that i cannot trace. Thanks

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks for taking the time to look.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      There is a new site for GRO bmds and the mother's maiden name is shown from 1837. I am on my kindle so I don't know how to do a link, perhaps someone else will do it, please.

                      I've had a quick look, too many to know which might be yours I'm afraid. You could try cross referencing all the births with deaths and the 1911 census.

                      OC

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I posted link previously https://www.gro.gov.uk/ - you need to log in (it costs nothing) and do a search. It only lets you search 4 years at a time.

                        I have had a look and there are too many with Elliott and maiden name Jones than you need, I have tried cross referencing to the deaths and think I have one match - see marked in red

                        You could be lucky in finding the other family on the 1911 census and could then dismiss a bunch just leaving you with yours. Also some names may fit better.

                        Male births
                        ELLIOTT, CHARLES JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 528

                        ELLIOTT, RICHARD JOSEPH JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 541
                        ELLIOTT, THOMAS JOHN JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1903 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 545
                        ELLIOTT, WILLIAM FRANCIS JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 613
                        ELLIOTT, THOMAS JOHN JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 573

                        ELLIOTT, TREVOR GEORGE JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 586
                        ELLIOTT, GEORGE ALBERT JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1911 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 1182


                        female births
                        ELLIOTT, SELINA JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 545
                        ELLIOTT, MARGARET MAY JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 532

                        ELLIOTT, MARTHA MARY JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 531
                        ELLIOTT, DORA LIZZIE JONES
                        GRO Reference: 1911 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 589


                        infant deaths - not available with maiden name
                        Male
                        ELLIOTT, WILLIAM 0
                        GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 281
                        ELLIOTT, JOHN HENRY LEONARD 0
                        GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 268
                        ELLIOTT, STANLEY WALTER 0
                        GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 314
                        ELLIOTT, LESLIE AUGUSTUS 1
                        GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 256
                        ELLIOTT, EDWARD JOHN 0
                        GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 277
                        ELLIOTT, JOHN EDWARD 1
                        GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 306
                        ELLIOTT, BRINLEY 2
                        GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in PONTY PRIDD Volume 11A Page 264
                        ELLIOTT, CHARLES GEORGE 0
                        GRO Reference: 1906 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 262
                        ELLIOTT, EDWIN PHILLIP 0
                        GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 283
                        ELLIOTT, ARTHUR EDWARD 0
                        GRO Reference: 1907 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 325
                        ELLIOTT, THOMAS JOHN 0
                        GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 290

                        ELLIOTT, CHARLES HENRY 3
                        GRO Reference: 1911 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 488

                        female
                        ELLIOTT, CLARA WINIFRED 1
                        GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 350
                        ELLIOTT, ELIZABETH 0
                        GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 321
                        ELLIOTT, ELSIE MAY 0
                        GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 297
                        Carolyn
                        Family Tree site

                        Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                        Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Sorry cbc, didn't spot your link, my kindle doesn't show colours very well!

                          OC

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                            Sorry cbc, didn't spot your link, my kindle doesn't show colours very well!

                            OC
                            no problem

                            I have just realised you can dismiss the female and last male as these were after the census, and the female in December quarter as too soon after first born
                            Also this name is the one that has died later at age 0
                            ELLIOTT, THOMAS JOHN

                            so it is either not yours or he also died
                            Last edited by cbcarolyn; 01-06-19, 19:27.
                            Carolyn
                            Family Tree site

                            Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                            Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The birth of Brinley is on FreeBMD but not on GRO

                              Births Sep 1903
                              Elliott Brinley Pontypridd 11a 509

                              You have age 2 for his death in post#12 --- obviously means 2 months not 2 years
                              Kat
                              My avatar is my Great Grandmother, Cassandra Elizabeth Palmer 1861 to 1940

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Apart from Thomas John who we know died all the others are on 1911 census

                                ELLIOTT, CHARLES mmn JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 528

                                ELLIOTT, MARGARET MAY mmn JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 532
                                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                ELLIOTT, SELINA mmn JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1901 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 545------------------------------------on 1911 census

                                ELLIOTT, MARTHA MARY JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 531------------------------------------on 1911 census

                                ELLIOTT, RICHARD ARTHUR JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 503 ------------------------------------on 1911 census
                                ELLIOTT, RICHARD JOSEPH JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 541------------------------------------on 1911 census

                                ELLIOTT, THOMAS JOHN JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1903 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 545------------------------------------on 1911 census

                                ELLIOTT, WILLIAM FRANCIS JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 613------------------------------------on 1911 census

                                ELLIOTT, THOMAS JOHN JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 573

                                ELLIOTT, THOMAS JOHN DEATH age 0
                                GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 290

                                ELLIOTT, TREVOR GEORGE JONES
                                GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 586------------------------------------on 1911 census
                                Kat
                                My avatar is my Great Grandmother, Cassandra Elizabeth Palmer 1861 to 1940

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  I cannot see a birth for these deaths anywhere - not just Wales therefore probably not registered.
                                  Dec 1903 Elliott Leslie Augustus age 1(hr, day, Week Month etc) Pontypridd 11a 256
                                  Mar 1906 Elliott Edwin Phillip age 0 Pontypridd 11a 283

                                  All the other deaths Carolyn listed have Pontypridd birth registrations but with different m m name.

                                  It looks possible then that these three - Leslie, Edwin and Thomas could be your missing three.
                                  Edit. There is of course Brinley as well :(
                                  Last edited by Katarzyna; 01-06-19, 21:05.
                                  Kat
                                  My avatar is my Great Grandmother, Cassandra Elizabeth Palmer 1861 to 1940

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    good deduction, I had to go and do something, so didn't have chance to look.

                                    Brinley sounds an unusual name - so it might fit with eg a maiden name of grandmother, or some other family name
                                    Carolyn
                                    Family Tree site

                                    Researching: Luggs, Freeman - Cornwall; Dayman, Hobbs, Heard - Devon; Wilson, Miles - Northants; Brett, Everett, Clark, Allum - Herts/Essex
                                    Also interested in Proctor, Woodruff

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X