Question on Indirect Immigration to the USA

[harleynut97]

Hi, My name is Carl and new to the forum. Hoping I can get some help on my Great Great Grandfather, John S. Endres.
Apparently he immigrated alone in 1883. He and his family were from a small village called Mombris,Germany.

He took a ship named WEGA from Hamburg Port to London. Please see the embarking passenger list

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=hamburgPL_full&cj=1&_f0005fd7_x=1&_8300 4003-n_xcl=unknown&rank=1&_f0005fd7=Wega*&hc=50&pcc=2&g sln=Endres*&gsfn=Johann*&fh=0&netid=cj&o_xid=00023 70638&o_lid=0002370638&o_sch=Affiliate+External

My Questions are....

1) I wanted to add the actual passenger list image, but it wants a URL, which I don't have it posted anywhere. Is there a way to add an image directly from my computer?

2) Regarding the indirect questions. If someone took an indirect voyage....would they generally change ships? Or did the ship just stop at the first port (London) pick up more passengers...than carry on to the USA. He went to London from Hamburg on May 18-19/1883.

3) If in fact he did change ships in London, how would I best research that to try and find a passenger list / ship name for his journey to the US from London?


4) His other family members immigrated 1 year later, and I have their information coming into Castlegarden. They immigrated out of Bremmen port. I cannot find anything at Castle Garden regarding John S.Endres. I need to research other entry ports, but you would think he would have came into the same port as his other family members.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Katarzyna]

Hi and Welcome to FTF.

In the quick reply box below there is a little picture on the banner -3rd from the left. Click on that and then click on "from computer" . Choose file and upload.

[Katarzyna]

It looks like the WEGA plied between Hamburg and London.
The passengers would then travel overland to Liverpool for example and on to USA or Canada. Passengers often bought their tickets from a German agent for the complete trip ie Hamburg to USA.
Have you looked at outgoing passenger lists from the UK?

[PhotoFamily]

Hi, & Welcome to FTF -
I would say that since the passenger list specifically says his destination is the US, then the same ship went all the way there (or not! go with the other post). It is curious that there's only two passengers listed - I wonder if this could have been a cargo ship that took on a couple of passengers? If you look at the image before and after, they're similar.
I tried looking for his entry thru Castle Gardens without success, nor did I find an immigration record for him in FamilySearch. I don't have Fold3 - I think they have the full records for Ellis Island?? but they're also indexed on FamilySearch, so he should have appeared in that search.
Keep in mind that his name may have been spelled differently as he passed thru entry ports.
Finally - do you know if he naturalized? Have you been able to find his naturalization papers? Post 1906 naturalizations are the better (not that you have a choice) because they have more information

[Macbev]

The Ellis Island records begin in 1892, so an 1883 arrival would not appear on that data base
"The Ellis Island Archive contains the passenger lists of more than 51 million immigrants, passengers, and crew members who came through Ellis Island and the Port of New York from 1892 to 1957. The period from 1892 to 1924 at Ellis Island was the largest human migration in modern history!"

http://libertyellisfoundation.org/about-passenger-search

[Sylvia C]

Some American immigrants went to Canadian ports first and then crossed the border into the US ....

..... and vice versa of course!

[Katarzyna]

Hi, & Welcome to FTF -
I would say that since the passenger list specifically says his destination is the US, then the same ship went all the way there

No this is incorrect. I have one relative that travelled Hamburg - London - Liverpool - Quebec and another that travelled Antwerp - Hull- Liverpool - New York. All had agency tickets for their final destinations.

Wega, 1881 taken over with fleet of Gebrüder Schiller & Co. (Mgr F.G. Schmidt), Hamburg, in HLL [Hamburg London Line]

[Uncle John]

No this is incorrect. I have one relative that travelled Hamburg - London - Liverpool - Quebec and another that travelled Antwerp - Hull- Liverpool - New York. All had agency tickets for their final destinations.

Wega, 1881 taken over with fleet of Gebrüder Schiller & Co. (Mgr F.G. Schmidt), Hamburg, in HLL [Hamburg London Line]

I agree with Kat. A North Sea coaster would never sail the Atlantic. There were many more coasters than Atlantic liners sailing from Hamburg.

[harleynut97]

@all Thank you for the very quick suggestions

@Katarzyna I will definitely check outgoing from Liverpool. The index for the Hamburg to London shows arrival to NY. I have searched Castle Garden with some wildcards, but still have come up empty for 1883.
He was born in Jan 20,1862 in Mombris, so I feel very confident this Hamburg to London PL is him.

I must be missing something on the picture from computer.... I'm typing in the quick reply and I see the
photo icon 3rd from the right...but that's the one that wants a URL. The 3rd from left is an icon that says paste as plain text. I tried to go advance but ran into the same thing.
Maybe if its possible you can post a screen grab

@Sylvia I guess it is possible he entered into another port, but I kind of feel like it would be NY. But it's worth a try checking

@photoFamily He was Naturalized, The whole family immigrated to Faribault Minnesota. All the naturalization records are held by a place called Iron Range Research Center in MN. I need
to contact them to find out if they have Petition or just a first papers. I know that there is a possibility of immigration info may be there.

I primarily use FamilySearch, and take a trip to the library to check ancestory when needed. I really do appreciate the input and would welcome any continued help.

[Macbev]

Capture.JPG

I guess this is the image you wanted to show? Sorry it's small...PB is not currently 'speaking' to me

[Katarzyna]

Strange you cannot see this?

Capture.JPG

Capture1.JPG

[harleynut97]

@kat Yes I clearly see the icons...but when I press the icon (3rd from the right) the only option I get is a an add image from URL...no options for browse for file.
Even more strange is any image that you or anyone has posted.... if I click the image (to view the larger size) I get this message..

harleynut97, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

I am logged in... I just activated the account a few days ago... so not really sure what is going on. The other thing I am not seeing, is any options to edit my posts.

[PhotoFamily]

I am logged in... I just activated the account a few days ago... so not really sure what is going on. The other thing I am not seeing, is any options to edit my posts.

You may only edit your posts within 10 minutes after submitting them.

Kat is not logged in at the moment - you can tell by the dot after the user name - if it's green, the user is logged in.

[Katarzyna]

Can someone with Ancestry look this up for me please.

Hamburg Passenger Lists, 1850-1934 (in German)

Joh Endres
year date New York ship name

It is on the same list as the one that Macbev and Harleynut found which I think is this one:

Johann Endres
year date London (America (England) via London) ship name

[Macbev]

This the one you want?

Name:Joh Endres
Gender:mannlich (Male)
Departure age:44
Occupation: Maurer
Birth date: abt 1839
Residence: Bamberg ,Bayern (Bavaria)
Departure date: 19 Dez 1883
Port of Departure: Hamburg
Port of arrival:New York
Ship's name: Rugia
Captain :Albers
Shipping clerk:Aug. Bolten Wm. Miller`s Nachfolger
Shipping line: Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft
Ship type: Dampfschiff
Ship flag: Deutschland
accommodation: Zwischendeck
volume; 373-7 I VIII A 1 Band 050 B

Household members: Joh Endres, 44
Kath. A. Endres, 48
Margr. Endres, 15
Ann Endres, 9
Marie Endres, 11 monate

[Katarzyna]

Thanks Bev, Obviously not the one that Harleynut wanted. Just cannot find anything on FamilySearch, FMP etc for Johan or John Endres :(

[harleynut97]

@photofamily I'm definitely seeing the green dot next to my username and up at the top it shows I'm logged in. This (do not have permission) message I get when clicking any thumbnail image, still makes me feel this could be part of the problem....doesn't make sense to me that I can't view the larger images that you guys have been attaching. Thanks for the clarification on the edit question.

@macbev That is definitely not the right family. I'm absolutely positive that he traveled alone based on other obituaries and things I have found. John S Endres had a brother Godfrey that came alone before him, in 1882 according to a passport application I found. His brother John S came alone in 1883, and the remaining members, His Father George ,Mother Elizabeth, brother Michael and Maria came all together and arrived at Castlegarden on May 24,1884.

@Kat I share your frustration , I wish I knew the correct data bases to check for outgoing ships from Liverpool. I wanted to test out your idea about arriving in London... than embarking from Liverpool. But when first googling and searching familysearch it seemed like most Liverpool embarkation data bases start at 1890. Perhaps you or others can point me to links to search outgoing data bases for Liverpool before 1890.

I'm so frustrated with this problem on not being able to add attachments from my computer, I want to provide you with screen grabs and other information which might help. How specifically do I contact an administrator of this forum?

Thanks again for all your help

[Elaine ..Spain]

I'm so frustrated with this problem on not being able to add attachments from my computer, I want to provide you with screen grabs and other information which might help. How specifically do I contact an administrator of this forum?

I'm not sure why you are having problems adding attachments. I have checked your profile and everything looks fine from our end. It could be a browser issue. Do you have another browser you could use - just to check whether you still have the same problem.
Elaine (Admin)

[harleynut97]

I can definitely try a different browser... I'm currently using firefox...but let me try chrome. Why do you think I am getting that error message in post #12?

[Macbev]

Harleynut, I saw a number of likely entries for John S Endres in Minnesota on Ancestry relating to various State census, grave etc. Do you already have this information, or would you like me to post it here? I don't think any of it will tell you what on vessel he arrived in the USA, but there is confirmation it was in 1883.