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    John Brett Roscorla

    Hi All,

    First time poster here, and first time family tree researcher on Ancestry.

    I'm having a real tough time researching my mother' side of the family. I have her, her father John Brett Roscorla (Died in 1975) and her mother J**** C***** (born: abt 1953) and her mother Gladys Smith (1922 - 1987) and J****' father W****** E C***** (B: abt 1920)

    However, the trouble i'm having is finding anything on Mr Roscorla. He married my maternal grandmother in 1970 in Birmingham, Warwickshire at the age of 17, and he died on 5th August 1975 (it weird' me out that he died on the day of my birth, 13 years prior.) Looking at his death record i've got the following information;

    Name: John Brett Roscorla
    Born on: 26th January 1953
    Born in: England (no further information available)
    Died on: 5th August 1975
    Died in: Chelmsley Wood, Birmingham
    Cause of death: chest injury with infra thoracic haemorrhage

    Maiden name of woman who has married? -------
    name and surname of informant: certificate received from Cecil Cudworth asst. dep. coroner for west midlands inquest held on 16th September 1975

    Its threw a spanner in my works, and it's awfully confusing

    Any help, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

    Thanks in advance

    Sorry, but as we don't allow the names of living people (or who may be living) to be posted, I have had to remove a couple of the names. I can always restore them if we establish that they are deceased.
    Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 07-02-16, 15:18.

    #2
    It sounds as though he died in an accident. You can't get inquest reports for such a relatively recent event but you may find it reported in a newspaper. 1975 is too recent for the online newspaper archives but a library local to Birmingham would have them. You do have the advantage of the excact date of the inquest, so any newspaper report would be close to that.
    Anne

    Comment


      #3
      There is a John Roscorla born in Birmingham in 1950. Mothers Maiden name Court. That is the nearest I can find. There is also a sister born in 1948 but can't name her as she will probably still be alive.
      Lin

      Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

      Comment


        #4
        Do you happen to know whether John Brett Roscorla had any siblings please? Or did you ever hear any other Roscorla names mentioned?

        I have just seen your post Lin. That was the one I was wondering about.
        Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 07-02-16, 15:51.
        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

        Comment


          #5
          If he is the John we have been looking at, his father didn't die until 1985, so your mother would have remembered her Grandfather. This ones name was Edgar A Roscorla who died Sept 1985 in Solihull South.
          Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

          Comment


            #6
            Just a thought to widen your search maybe - the name REscorla is a common Cornish surname.

            OC

            Comment


              #7
              Hi guys,

              Sorry for the delay.

              I did speak to my mother about this to see if she knew anything;

              He did have a sister or a half sister, I'm unsure if she is alive or dead her name does begin with R
              John died in 1975 my mum was about 6 years old, she doesn't know much apart from what her mother told her (we can't ask her anything)
              Apparently John committed suicide by jumping from a flat - or so my mum was told - the address on his death certificate is a high rise flat built many years so it could be true? Who knows, i'm going to have to pop to the Birmingham Library this week

              Johns mum' maiden name was Mansfield - and his father' surname was Roscorla also - no known birth or death dates

              I have been told that the family does descend from Italy

              Comment


                #8
                ** Johns mum' maiden name was Mansfield - and his father' surname was Roscorla also - no known birth or death dates **

                Again, my mum "thinks" this is true :/

                Comment


                  #9
                  Do you have the marriage cert for John & your grandmother? It would give the names & occupations of the fathers of the bride & groom, also addresses & declared ages of both your grandparents - this would probably iron out some of your current research problems and give you a sound basis to work from.

                  Jay
                  Janet in Yorkshire



                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                    If he is the John we have been looking at, his father didn't die until 1985, so your mother would have remembered her Grandfather. This ones name was Edgar A Roscorla who died Sept 1985 in Solihull South.
                    In 1939 this Edgar was living with Artur E Roscorla and 3 more people. After 16th Feb I can look up 2 of them if of interest.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                      Do you have the marriage cert for John & your grandmother? It would give the names & occupations of the fathers of the bride & groom, also addresses & declared ages of both your grandparents - this would probably iron out some of your current research problems and give you a sound basis to work from.

                      Jay
                      Hi Jay,

                      I'm waiting for the certificate, it should arrive in the next couple of days. I'm hoping it will shed some light.
                      It's really bizarre.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I'm sure we will be able to help you better when you get the certificate.

                        No good going down the wrong path now.

                        Post the details and we will all help then
                        Lin

                        Searching Lowe, Everitt, Hurt and Dunns in Nottingham

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi Again

                          So, i have received the marriage certificate today for J.Roscorla and my grandmother, it helps in a way that i know i am researching the right person - there was that doubt for a while.

                          On the certificate it says John had changed his name by deed poll - i felt like hitting my head against the wall at this stage! - his father isn't named it's just a dash through it.

                          I'm reading about deed poll' and apparently you don't have to get it registered, so there may not be a paper trail? I'm not even sure if we can order deed polls?

                          Any ideas and help would be amazing

                          Thank you :D

                          Comment


                            #14
                            http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/h...anges-of-name/ its not looking hopeful for you as names changed by Deed Poll can be searched but only in person in London.

                            Edna

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Oh dear - bit of a complication for you.

                              I wonder if John found out the true facts of his parentage and birth name when he was about to be married.

                              He might have been brought up as Roscorla and then, on finding out that that wasn't his birth name, he decided to "become" a Roscorla by deed poll.
                              Alternatively, he may have found out that his natural father was a Mr Roscorla and decided to change his name to that.

                              I have seen an entry in a church register which referred to bride's name being by deed poll, but can't remember the exact wording. Does it put a date for the name change?
                              Was it a church or registry office ceremony?
                              Does it say anything about parental consent, if John was only 17?
                              We could be dealing with living people here, so need to be careful, but do the names of the witnesses seem to have any significance?
                              Where was John living at the time of the marriage? Perhaps street directories or electoral rolls could be useful in finding out who was at that address.

                              Jay
                              Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 13-02-16, 16:44.
                              Janet in Yorkshire



                              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                              Comment


                                #16
                                It is indeed odd - a 17 year old cannot normally change their surname by Deed Poll. Perhaps his mother did it for him - or she changed HER name by Deed Poll?

                                OC

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                                  Oh dear - bit of a complication for you.

                                  I wonder if John found out the true facts of his parentage and birth name when he was about to be married.

                                  He might have been brought up as Roscorla and then, on finding out that that wasn't his birth name, he decided to "become" a Roscorla by deed poll.
                                  Alternatively, he may have found out that his natural father was a Mr Roscorla and decided to change his name to that.

                                  I have seen an entry in a church register which referred to bride's name being by deed poll, but can't remember the exact wording. Does it put a date for the name change?
                                  Was it a church or registry office ceremony?
                                  Does it say anything about parental consent, if John was only 17?
                                  We could be dealing with living people here, so need to be careful, but do the names of the witnesses seem to have any significance?
                                  Where was John living at the time of the marriage? Perhaps street directories or electoral rolls could be useful in finding out who was at that address.

                                  Jay
                                  All posabilties to be honest.
                                  My mom did say his dada surname was Roscorla - it's very odd as i can't find anything with a Roscorla & a Mansfield on Ancestry nor John' sister/half sister (again assuming she shared the same surname.)

                                  Looking at the certificate, it gives no dates on the name change and it was a registry office ceremony
                                  It doesn't specify anything about parental consent
                                  I believe one of the witness was my great uncle for my nan
                                  For John i can only guess what it says, i want to say Smith - but there doesn't seem to be any significance

                                  He was living at 92 stetchford road, ward end

                                  Is there a way to search for the street and the years to find who was living there?

                                  I am thinking a trip to National Archives to if there as indeed a deed poll for John

                                  Thank you guys!

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                    It is indeed odd - a 17 year old cannot normally change their surname by Deed Poll. Perhaps his mother did it for him - or she changed HER name by Deed Poll?

                                    OC

                                    My Grandaughter changed her name on line at the age of 16 for £15 she told me and that was two years ago, her Mother gave her a Birth name she decided to later change and kept to it so GD had the original one changed by Deed Poll

                                    Edna

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Edna

                                      Well I never knew that! I always assumed that any change of name could only be done by an adult and if a minor wanted to change their name they would have to get permission from their parent/s. Still, I live and learn!

                                      However, in this case he doesn't seem to have changed his name at all if he was the one born in 1950 as John Roscorla, mmn C. His parents wqwere married to each other at the time of his birth, so why would he claim no father on his MC? (Unless he knew Mr Roscorla wasn't his biological father...in which case, why still use his surname?).

                                      Rosko, please can you confirm John's given age on his MC.

                                      I'm not seeing the significance of the name Mansfield - it doesn't appear to be John's mother's maiden name - she married as C. and the three children all had the maiden name C, not Mansfield.

                                      OC

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Hi OC,

                                        On Johns MC it says he was 17 which means he would have been born in 1953 and not 1950 - unless he lied about his age?
                                        I'm completely confused
                                        Also, i know of one sibling he had a half sister/full sister

                                        I will PM you her name

                                        Rosko

                                        Comment

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