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Mengella family, Preston

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  • #21
    thats transcribed as Philomena Minchali on another site

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    • #22
      Hi Karamazov

      Glad you found LancsBMD useful for researching the Mengella family..I wouldn't be without it..Love it..Yes I'm sorry about getting the dates mixed up for Peter Paul Anthony F Mengella but couldn't figure out how to edit my post when I realized my mistake. His birth does shows up on Ancestry... born in Preston in 1904 with the Mengella spelling...

      Wanda

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      • #23
        https://familysearch.org/search/reco...Lancashire%22~ Not sure if you have all these but here are what Familysearch have if you have a quick check through

        Edna

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        • #24
          Originally posted by wanda houghton View Post
          Hi Karamazov

          Glad you found LancsBMD useful for researching the Mengella family..I wouldn't be without it..Love it..Yes I'm sorry about getting the dates mixed up for Peter Paul Anthony F Mengella but couldn't figure out how to edit my post when I realized my mistake. His birth does shows up on Ancestry... born in Preston in 1904 with the Mengella spelling...

          Wanda
          His birth is on FreeBMD too so I'm not sure how he slipped through the Lancs net. I now have a pretty big spreadsheet of assorted Mengella BMDs exported from the LancsBMD site - brilliant!
          Researching:
          HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

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          • #25
            Peter Paul Anthony F is on Lancsbmd 1904 as MENDELLA, mmn Gargan, lol

            OC

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
              Peter Paul Anthony F is on Lancsbmd 1904 as MENDELLA, mmn Gargan, lol

              OC
              Thanks - soundex didn't pick that one up!
              Researching:
              HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

              Comment


              • #27
                I have just found a marriage in Belfast 1877 for a Vito Minghella in The All Ireland, Civil Registration Marriage Index on Ancestry ..As I no longer have a subscription for Ancestry I can't view it to see who he married...perhaps if someone with a subscription can have a look at it, if only to rule it out.

                Wanda

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by wanda houghton View Post
                  I have just found a marriage in Belfast 1877 for a Vito Minghella in The All Ireland, Civil Registration Marriage Index on Ancestry ..As I no longer have a subscription for Ancestry I can't view it to see who he married...perhaps if someone with a subscription can have a look at it, if only to rule it out.

                  Wanda
                  Brilliant find Wanda - thanks for persevering with this. No need for ancestry as I have a few credits for searching on https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/search/marriage
                  transcribed as Vite Minghella and Maria Gargana, so that's good enough for me. They married in Belfast 30 Aug 1877.
                  Who would have thought? So possible migration trail is Italy (Naples?) - Belfast - London - Preston. I'll try and persuade my friend to buy the certificate when I next see her, for respective fathers' names. and hopefully it will also give more specific details as to where they were from in Italy.
                  Thank you!
                  Christine
                  Researching:
                  HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
                    Brilliant find Wanda - thanks for persevering with this. No need for ancestry as I have a few credits for searching on https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/search/marriage
                    transcribed as Vite Minghella and Maria Gargana, so that's good enough for me. They married in Belfast 30 Aug 1877.
                    Who would have thought? So possible migration trail is Italy (Naples?) - Belfast - London - Preston. I'll try and persuade my friend to buy the certificate when I next see her, for respective fathers' names. and hopefully it will also give more specific details as to where they were from in Italy.
                    Thank you!
                    Christine
                    Well, we accessed the image of the civil marriage record today.
                    Marriage solemnised at the Roman Catholic Chapel of Holy Cross in the registrars district of Belfast, 30 Aug 1877,
                    Vite Minghella, full age, bachelor, musician, 14 Curtis Street, Belfast. Father: Giuseppe Minghella, labourer
                    Maria Gargana, full age, spinster, musician, 14 Curtis Street, Belfast. Father: Michele Gargana, labourer
                    (they were both recorded as musicians in the 1881 Preston census too.)
                    Vito signed his name, albeit not fluently - Vito Minchellis - and Maria made her mark. Witnesses: Giovanni and Rachel - surname looks like Dannuzi. (The writing of their names is clearer here than on the church record below)

                    I was then able to cross-reference this to the NLI Catholic registers for that church. The church register includes far more detail, including mothers' first names (very unusual. I think this is the first time I've seen this after ploughing through hundreds of these records since they came online in July!) - first entry across two pages here:
                    This website contains images from the NLI’s collection of Catholic parish register microfilms. The registers contain records of baptisms and marriages from the majority of Catholic parishes in Ireland and Northern Ireland up to 1880.

                    All in Latin.
                    Can anyone transcribe/translate the Denuntiationes column?
                    Italian place names of Valle Grante and Copla - can anyone pin these down, presumably somewhere in the Naples region?

                    Christine
                    Last edited by Karamazov; 13-10-15, 19:02.
                    Researching:
                    HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      My silly little hunch that Mary/Maria's name sounded slightly Irish on a couple of their children's birth registrations led me to look in the Irish marriage records on Ancestry, and I'm so pleased that I did. It is without doubt the right marriage, and has enabled your friend to go back a further generation in her Ancestry, thanks to their parents being named on the register for that church..

                      Could their reason for being in Belfast and then London have anything to do with the Italian Opera company that was performing in Belfast at the Theatre Royal around that time. The Theatre Royal was situated at Arthur Square, very close to Curtis St. Perhaps they were members of the orchestra?
                      What brought them to Preston I wonder?..Preston was very much a mill town and I can't imagine that there would have been very much interest in Opera at that time...They did have Music halls and theatre, so they would have required musicians.

                      Have you had any success in locating the place names Valle Grante and Copla?

                      Wanda
                      Last edited by wanda houghton; 16-10-15, 14:30.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by wanda houghton View Post
                        My silly little hunch that Mary/Maria's name sounded slightly Irish on a couple of their children's birth registrations led me to look in the Irish marriage records on Ancestry, and I'm so pleased that I did. It is without doubt the right marriage, and has enabled your friend to go back a further generation in her Ancestry, thanks to their parents being named on the register for that church..

                        Could their reason for being in Belfast and then London have anything to do with the Italian Opera company that was performing in Belfast at the Theatre Royal around that time. The Theatre Royal was situated at Arthur Square, very close to Curtis St. Perhaps they were members of the orchestra?
                        What brought them to Preston I wonder?..Preston was very much a mill town and I can't imagine that there would have been very much interest in Opera at that time...They did have Music halls and theatre, so they would have required musicians.

                        Have you had any success in locating the place names Valle Grante and Copla?

                        Wanda
                        Hi Wanda,
                        Thanks for the suggestion re the Italian Opera company - interesting. It might be a bit of a stretch - according to Pauline (friend), family lore says he was a street piano player but I will ask her more about that when I see her tomorrow. However, I'm not sure what the status of orchestral players then would have been. Perhaps there wouldn't have been as much of a status gap between being a member of an orchestra and a busker then as there would be nowadays???

                        I had a look at the 1877 Ulster Street Directory in the hope that I might find a load of Italian musicians living in Curtis Street which would back up your theory but no such luck. Living at 14 Curtis Street,as per his recorded address on one of the marriage records, is John Denuncie (sic - yet another variant surname spelling and anglicisation of his first name) who is one of the marriage witnesses (as Giovanni Dannuzi) However, he is a mason so no musical connection there.


                        Where did you find the info re the Opera Company performing in Belfast around this time?

                        And no, I haven't got anywhere with Valle Grante and Copla....

                        Christine
                        Last edited by Karamazov; 19-10-15, 20:20.
                        Researching:
                        HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          See next post!

                          OC
                          Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 19-10-15, 22:17.

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                          • #33
                            Could the places be Coppola and Vallegrande?

                            OC

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                              Could the places be Coppola and Vallegrande?

                              OC
                              OC,
                              Could well be, who knows given all the variant spellings associated with this family! Are your suggestions "educated guesses" or places you have actually found? If the latter, can you tell me whereabouts in Italy?
                              Ta
                              Christine
                              Last edited by Karamazov; 19-10-15, 22:39.
                              Researching:
                              HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Coppola and Vallegrande are both places in Latium, Italy, which is to the right of Rome, more or less.

                                OC

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Hi karamazov

                                  I accessed the Belfast News-Letter through the Gale websites 19th century British newspapers, where there are countless references to the Italian Opera societies performances at the Theatre Royal in Belfast.

                                  I have a tendency to believe the family lore, that Vito was indeed a street musician as opposed to a musician in an orchestra. Hard to believe that the son of a labourer could achieve that status, although anything is possible. As Vito then went on to become an ice cream vendor I thought this photo would be of interest



                                  This ice cream merchant operated from 85 Adelphi St, and as John Mengella lived at 60 Adelphi Street, I'm almost sure these two families would have known each other.

                                  Wanda
                                  Last edited by wanda houghton; 20-10-15, 23:21.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by wanda houghton View Post
                                    Hi karamazov

                                    I accessed the Belfast News-Letter through the Gale websites 19th century British newspapers, where there are countless references to the Italian Opera societies performances at the Theatre Royal in Belfast.

                                    I have a tendency to believe the family lore, that Vito was indeed a street musician as opposed to a musician in an orchestra. Hard to believe that the son of a labourer could achieve that status, although anything is possible. As Vito then went on to become an ice cream vendor I thought this photo would be of interest



                                    This ice cream merchant operated from 85 Adelphi St, and as John Mengella lived at 60 Adelphi Street, I'm almost sure these two families would have known each other.

                                    Wanda
                                    I had a look at the Italian Opera Company in 1877 and it looks like they had two week long engagements in Belfast in March and Oct - so touring elsewhere or back at base in London when Vito and Maria/Mary married in Aug 1877. So a connection seems somewhat unlikely. However, I totally forgot to ask Pauline if she could dredge up anything else on the musical front but will try and remember for next Tuesday, as you never know...

                                    The 3 Terribile ice cream vendor photos on the link you posted are absolutely wonderful. Funnily enough, there had been no activity on that page in the five years since the photos were originally posted. But now there has been a little flurry of activity in the last two days. Seems like an odd coincidence - or is it somehow connected to your last post???

                                    Christine
                                    Researching:
                                    HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Hello,

                                      I am part of this family and currently researching my family tree!

                                      my great great grandad was Vito Mengella married to Mary G.
                                      Their son John Mengella who died from wounds in the war and is buried in France is my great grandad, he married Lillian Lawson.
                                      they had 2 children Frank and Mary ellen (Nellie)
                                      Frank had one son, my dad.
                                      Nellie had no children.
                                      i have private messages Karamazov - please checked your messages
                                      I am so happy I came across this site

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                                      • #39
                                        Hello Katielaws90 great to see you managed to get onsite and PM Karamazov if you use the @ sign you can tag a specific member and they should then be redirected to the thread that you have tagged them in, it'll appear in their messages box top right. Hopefully, Christine will get back to you asap.
                                        Julie
                                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                        .......I find dead people

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                                        • #40
                                          Thank you so much for your help

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