Help with birthplace, please

[GallowayLass]

There is an army record for a Charles Lewin born Brisbrook 1877, who served in the Lincolnshire regiment. He served in India Oct 1898 until March 1903.
There is a signature on his enlistment form (1895) but I don;t have a later one to compare it with.

Jay

That will explain why he's not on the 1901 census then. I wonder how he met Anna Maria Coleman and married in Norfolk almost 2 years later? His address and occupation will be on the marriage certificate. Looks like you are going to have to shell out and buy it.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Where did you get this 1911 census from? I've been trawling ancestry for hours now and hadn't found it. Even putting in the exact moth and year of the children's births as on the census page, I still get no results. What did you enter to bring this item up?

From here http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Pages/h...ukm8lrj7b90ss0

(I only have basic Ancestry - the above site is free.)
I use the site a lot, but do find it very "precise," with many transcription errors, so often have to do a lot of fiddling. Less is definitely better and, after consulting familysearch.org for a breakdown of info, I often enter e.g Alice age X, then name of a county as a keyword. Sometimes I have to go through all family members to get the required image.
The quality of this particular image is poor, most are much clearer.
I did wonder if someone else (relative?) had supplied the information, at an empty property, which would explain the 2 known children and a guestimate about ages and country of birth.
The 1911 Census for Canada officially began on June, 1, 1911. Perhaps he was between family homes due to having gone to England and had had to find a new job on his return. In 1906 he was a fireman, 1908 a boilermaker - I guess both jobs were in shipbuilding??

Thanks for all you help - I am having a headache with this chap, and basically it doesn't matter a flying fig whether or not I have full details of him as it's his wife who's a slender twig on the periphery of my tree, but we get obsessed by the challenge of mis-information!

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks Vera - I'm struggling to keep up!
It could well be that new member Bill, grandson of William Charles and son of Noel, can add family anecdotes to this next week when he returns from a little break. He posted a couple of days ago on an old thread of mine ("Help with sailings") and that precipitated this thread, and now it's created a bit of a mystery and I'll have a job getting off to sleep tonight! Does anyone else think through family history mysteries instead of counting sheep? :D I never did get on with counting sheep - it kept me wide awake because I could picture them and they were always having to jump over a hurdle, but some jumped onto others already climbing over, others ran round it and some broke free and ran off and
went through a gap in the hedge.

Bill said Alice was sent off to another family after Anna Maria died (I think he mentioned the name Murray??) but the boys stayed with WC.
I found that Alice was adopted by a Mr John Gray - it was written on the bottom of her birth registration (the image is on familysearch.org) If only that happened here! She married as Alice Lewin Gray, daughter of Chas W Lewin.

Jay

[GallowayLass]

This is the signature from Charles' 2nd marriage in 1924 for you to compare. I have the whole image if you want it.

[GallowayLass]

I have ancestry worldwide and I just can't find him on 1911 Canada. I wouldn't worry about the other people on the page with him. Many people didn't understand fully how to complete the census and he probably put his wife and two children because they normally lived there. They were just on holiday in England with their Mum as she had likely gone home to visit her parents and gave birth to child number three while she was there.

UPDATE - got him now. I followed a source link in one of the ancestry trees and he's been indexed as LEAVIN. Doh!

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Charles Lewin 2.jpg

What do you reckon?
Sorry never added an image before, do I need to make it bigger and if so, how do I do that?

Jay

[vera2013]

Chaslewin1Capture.PNG chaslewinCapture.jpg

mm not sure. There appears to be a long tail on the L on 1st one



You found it before me Galloway Lass. I tried every which way.

Have got the WW Ancestry. Can see a Charles Lewin into Liverpool from Canada Janauary 1905, possibly in time for his 1st M to Anna Maria 1st Q 1905 Erpingham reg. He is a boiler maker with dob of 1876.

There is also a bit of toing and froing of Anna Maria. Into the UK 1910 before Noel's birth and then returning in 1912.

I agree with Glasgow Girl. Charles just added his family in 1911 even though they weren't there.

His 2nd marriage 1924 gives parents as Daniel and Edith Bryan who fit with the Brisbook (spelling) birth and on Census. He also said he was 40 years of age but then his bride was only 21.

Off to have a glass of something now.

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for putting them side by side Vera.

I thought they showed a lot of likenesses, especially the "r" in Charles.
The first one was 1895, the second 1924.

Thanks also for the 1905 incoming passenger information - I can only access outgoing. Boilermaker is interesting because that is what trade is recorded in 1908 on Stephen's birth registration.
I think the March 1905 sailing to Portland for WC & Mrs Lewin was for a farmer, and then there's the Nov 1910 Liverpool to Quebec voyage for a William Lewin, single, 33 yrs joiner.

Enjoy your glass of mineral water or Ribena, Vera - I've resorted to a piledriver (a home made concoction of orange juice with a tiny? measure of white rum.) Cheers.

jay

[vera2013]

I agree the ar of Charles is similar.

Just found them going out after their marriage

transcribed as Mrs Wm C Lewin aged 26 Boiler Maker

AM wife aged 22

Arrived 2nd April 1905 on the SS Vancouver from Liverpool.

That piledriver sounds very good. Distraught at not being able to get my Ribena from that supermarket anymore. It will just have to be water. Perhaps with a little something on the side.

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks Vera.
How very interesting on the 1905 departure record WC was a farmer. By the time they arrived, he was a boilermaker.
I am intrigued by the job descriptions 1895 enlistment Charles was a groom.
In the army until 1903. 1905 WC was a Boilersmith - wonder where he learned that trade? 1906 fireman (perhaps stoking on a ship??) 1908 boilerman.
Does the 1924 marriage record for Charles record an occupation, I wonder?

Jay

[GallowayLass]

It says he's an ironmaker and a widower. I think he's shaved off 7 or 8 years fron his age to lessen the gap between hin and his much younger bride. Charkes is now C of E but the bride is of the Gospel Workers.

I can't sleep either but that's due to pain in shoulder and left leg and general arthritic decrepitness LOL Sadly alcohol would not help. Your concoction soubds lovely
If you PM me your email address I'll send you the marriage image.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

pm sent.
Many thanks GL.

Jay

[vera2013]

CharlesLewin4Capture.jpg

This second signature from his Army record looks a good comparison

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for that Vera.
You found him coming back to Liverpool in early 1905, in time to marry Anna Maria.
Can anyone find him going out to North America 1903 - 1905?
I'm intrigued as to how and where the happy couple met.
I'm also totally confused by all the possible sailings and as to whether Anna Maria came back alone with the two children, whilst her husband remained in Canada. In which case the Nov 1910 sailing of William Lewin, single, joiner, wouldn't have been for him.

I do appreciate everyone's help.

Jay

[vera2013]

I've been looking for him going out prior to coming back to marry Anna Maria. No luck so far.

If you mean the 1912 sailing. Ann Maria returned alone with the children. I will double check.

You are welcome to have the downloads.

Vera

[vera2013]

Yes, Anna Maria and the 3 children only.

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I have the image of Alice & the children departing in 1912 - "The leaving of Liverpool," LOL.

I have looked back at my "sailing" thread where Elaine in Spain posted
Anna, Alice and Stephen are shown on the Incoming Passenger Lists on Ancestry:

Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Anna Lewin
Port of Departure Montréal
Arrival Date - 3 Jun 1910, Liverpool
Ship Name: Victorian

So, unless anyone can find anything to the contrary, it looks as if Wm C/Charles perhaps stayed in Canada and didn't come over at all. In which case, the Nov 1910 sailing of William Lewin joiner, 33 yrs, was not Anna's husband.
A long stint on separate continents - one wonders why.
Methinks I may have opened up a can of worms for someone

Jay

[GallowayLass]

Don't jump to conclusions LOL My Grandad had a brother and sister in law in Perth, Australia. They had emigrated in May 1922. Their first child was born in Crewe because the wife wanted to come home to Mum to have first baby in England. She arrived in Plymouth from Fremantle 8 November 1923. The baby was born 5 January 1924. Mother and son left from London 24 April 1924 to return to Australia. At no time was her husband with her.

[vera2013]

http://search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-c&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=william&gsln=lew*n&MSAV=1&msady=1910&msady_x=1&_83004003-n_xcl=f&cpxt=1&cp=3&catbucket=rstp&uidh=326&pcat=40&h=4004160&db=CanadianPL&indiv=1&ml_rpos=2

This is what could be William the Joiner arriving in Canada. Only trouble is he is now 10 years older and a Labourer. Will need to double check there is not another William Lewin on board..

William Lewin aged 45/43 Previous occ Labourer. Planned occ General Labourer. Destination c/o Post Office, Ontario

Arrived on the 15th November 1910 on the Dominion from Liverpool

Is that a bit quick for an Atlantic crossing. William, the Joiner left on the 5th November 1910

Vera

[vera2013]

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7488/NYT715_357-0141/4030777177?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dnypl%26h%3d4030777177%26indiv%3dtry%26o_vc%3dRecord%3aOtherRecord%26rhSource%3d8991&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

This is an Ancestry cross ref of Charles Lewin

Liverpool to New York
17th May 1903
b 1878 aged 25
Single
on the Etruria

Image shows that he is a Groom. Last destination Stamford, England. In transit to what looks like Bro Bryan in Collingwood, Ontario, Canada

Vera